31% of Taiwanese earn less than NT$30,000; 10% earn over NT$61,000 per month

WeChat the platform is absolutely amazing. The mobile payment space in China is so much farther ahead than in Canada and elsewhere. But WeChat the app sucks.

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Yeah the platform is integrated into so many services . We run 90% of our marketing through wechat in China , it’s very efficient and you can get people sign up for stuff, pay stuff really easily. So if they want to join an event they just read the blurb (you can create what look like webpages in Wechat) and hit a button and their registration is recorded along with their contact details.
A lot of discussions with customers and internally are also on wechat groups.
After events we can get instant feedback from participants through WeChat surveys.
Of course a big factor in this is that wechat is so ubiquitous. For rest of Asia we have to do very fragmented marketing on Facebook, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, line. They also don’t have the same functionality . LINE and WhatsApp are like dinosaur apps.

WhatsApp is a mess.

Yup, it’s all linked to your bank, knows all your spending habits, who you contact. Guess who they’re giving that information to?

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I don’t think a single Chinese person would think otherwise

I’d say China is tremendously inventive and creative, despite their inner political situation and education system. Days of “copying the west” may be gone soon.

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based on what?

Still think guys you are too harsh on taiwan. What about Philippines, yea let talk about it Philippines and about their bosses.

Is capitalism all around world. Is far from perfect, but far better then anything else.Many americans can not afford health care. Does this make america a poor, shitty country? Every damn country on this planet has pluses and minus. Like big minuses. Including taiwan. In fact, many countries just have minuses, without any pluses.

And comparison to Russia is a joke. Except few district of Moscow, what is there for? Go for a trip, and check yourself. Drive car around countryside. Jesus what a scary experience. I was working a bit with russians and all of them were damn bloody cheap, and scared of regime. Everyone was like can i get visa in your country. This question allways pop up. Do i look like fakin embassy or what? Those abroad, were annoying as fuck, expect to get everything for free. Refuse to talk to me in english, cause i speak some russian. Do you get this logic, i speak a bit of russian, while their english is actually good, but still we have to communicate in russian language. People in military dying on regular base. Officer having a bad day, nothing special. You gotta pay cash to stay out, not to be draft in. Life is really cheap there.

That depends on how you deinfe poor and sh**ty.

But we live in Taiwan and not the Philippines. Taiwan is at a completely different stage of development. Taiwan was one of the “4 Little Dragon” economies of Asia but has stalled for 20 years. Nobody is being harsh on Taiwan, we are echoing the sentiments of much of the population, which is why nobody is having kids and smart young people are leaving.

Nobody is advocating socialism, rather better capitalism. Companies that are failing to innovate or stay competitive are being propped up by the government. They are subsidized through cheap fossil fuels and water, which destroys the environment. They are allowed to mistreat, overwork and underpay their workers. Just so that they can costdown to stay Competitive on price. The bosses then take all the profits and put them in tax havens, with little going back into the economy. This is a cancerous model that’s slowly killing this island. Taiwan is pure socialism for the rich.

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Versus costing up and no longer being competitive on price?

I see now why you’re not cut out to start your own business.

When a business isn’t doing well, a Taiwanese Bosses first move is always to costdown. Which inevitably means putting more pressure on workers. They won’t spend more money on marketing, innovation or try to be more inefficient. Why is this model not working?

Because the vast majority of Taiwanese bosses don’t have the innovation gene. I speak as one who’s been doing business in Taiwan since the mid-1990’s, had his own company here since 2001, becoming a permanent resident in the process.

What is the saying? Privatize the profits and socialise the losses?

Taiwan and Canada for that matter is good at benefitting the upper class off the backs of the working class.

Cheap electricity so stores can air condition the outside in the summer, cheap water for manufacturing, companies able to dump waste freely knowing if they get caught the fine is lower than the savings, employers getting people to clock out so the labor bureau doesn’t investigate but then back to your desk, companies blatantly disobeying judicial orders eg that taidong hotel built on a beach illegally

What do the working class get? Bad air, electricity grid overloads, pollution and cancer epidemic levels, and very low pension and social services. There is no money in the pot anymore for social services

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But Silicon Valley is full of innovative Taiwanese.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. These dinosaurs being propped up by the government have no incentive to change. Let them innovate or fail.

“There has been no new industry here in Taiwan, not really, in thirty years. We just follow and pick up what the Japanese don’t want to do.” – Cyrus C.Y. Chu, minister, National Science Council

“We do have innovation in the production process, but not in the final product. So the value added is quite limited.” – Chung-Ming Kuan, minister, Council for Economic Planning and Development

But now the profit margin for those factories has slipped to an average of about one percent, Taiwanese officials say, helping bring on the economic malaise. As the Ministry of Economic Affairs put it in a new publication, Taiwan needs to “extend the industrial value chain to areas of logistics and R&D.” Taiwan’s “policy objective,” it adds, is to “refine Taiwan’s industrial structure” to “accelerate technological innovation.”

“It’s not one hundred percent of the reason, but it’s highly related to cultural traditions. In the West, you highly value individuality and encourage kids to express themselves honestly. That’s not the case here.” – Dale W. Jieh, deputy chief trade negotiator in the Ministry of Economic Affairs

“You know, the Chinese value system is that everybody wants to go to a good school, get a good degree, get a good job, and then have a good life.”
– Ma-Li Yang, editor of Global Views

Taiwanese officials and others told me that children who want to vary from that track and perhaps try something new and innovative are usually ordered to take the good, safe job and ignore their individual passions. Asian parents generally hold far more sway over their children than we do in the West. And many Asian children, while driven to learn and earn, also realize they can go back and live with their parents, as so many young Asians do.

"You don’t see that concerted effort to brand new products. Everybody’s goal is to be the boss. They’re much more interested in that than they are in innovation.”
– Chen-Shen J. Yen, fellow at National Chengchi University,

”The idea of two young men working together in a garage to create a great new innovation, the American image of how innovation begins, feels as foreign and inappropriate as anything can be, in both Taiwan and China."
– Bruce Fuh, TECO, San Francisco

At the Hsinchu Science and Industrial Park, a video introduction for visitors describes the place as “Taiwan’s Silicon Valley.” But Grace Chen, a park administrator, acknowledged that “seventy percent of our companies here are ODMs”—even though the park’s rules stipulate that Hsinchu is dedicated to research and development, not “mass production.” Then she leaned over and added in a whisper: “For Taiwanese, it’s really impossible to do R&D without making money.”

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OK , so two issues:

  1. Taiwanese companies struggle with innovation.

That’s long been a problem. Korea and China had the same issues but now have changed course.

There are many ODMs and design houses in shenzhen that are much more innovative and flexible than Taiwanese companies, while not owning their own brands. Many of these JDM (joint design manufacturers) bring in ID and design staff from Europe and the States so that they can offer a complete service. They know where their strengths and weaknesses are and are willing to pay to improve their services. They understand the new market and how to speak to Western clients.

Taiwanese companies are just doing the same old same old. They don’t even have proper websites. Just going to trade shows and trying to get orders by being the cheapest.

I don’t expect Taiwan to become a creative powerhouse but they could at least be competitive with China.

  1. Taiwanese companies underpay and overwork their staff.

This issue is unrelated to the first. Many companies are still making money and can give more.

For the companies that can’t make money without squeezing their workers and receiving subsidies from the government, it’s better they die. What is the net benefit to society for these companies, especially if the bosses are not investing or paying tax in Taiwan.

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They did this for a few years at the end of 90s early 2000s in Taiwan. But for some reason, probably because most of the factories moved to China, the westerners didnt stick around and I think they left to China too or moved home.
But there were many companies using western designers at that time and even hiring Westerners to help with sales and marketing.

Another reason may have been they thought they could hire Taiwanese who were coming back to Taiwan after 1 year masters to do these kinds of jobs. Which they could do a certain extent but then missing the global perspective.

That 31% number will only get worse. As automation evolves, more and more will be making less and less. That could be a good thing, I guess. Or, at least, may as well accept it.

But, many posts have pointed out that TW struggles with innovation. Why? What can be done to reverse course? Brain-drain? Well, there are foreigners here, can’t they pick up some slack? TW does not need to invent a new wheel, per se. Just make a better wheel.

Should TW morph into a service/financial economy? Make their money from interest and fees?

I am sure TW’s rather complex international situation does not help. Why invest in a place, or live in a place where everything could change in the blink of an eye?

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Little talked about but hiring so many cheaper foreigners definitely has an impact in traditional manufacturing. Almost all of those will be on the minimum wage.