APRC no longer entails permission to work?

Legal Legal - Work
1

I have been employed full time for 12 years at a local university, and have held an APRC since October of 2000. The employment contract is renewed annually. Prior to getting the APRC I would take my “Pin-Shu” and a “Pin-Xin” issued by MOE to the Foreign Affairs Police on Yen-Ping S. Road for yearly re-issue of my ARC. No physical exam was required. Since 2001, I have simply called once a year to the FAP office and asked them if there was anything I needed to do; and the answer was “no”, so I did nothing. It was my impression that the APRC implied permission to work, and that that applied to any conceivable job, not to any one specific job. In other words, I understood that my status belonged in category “A” below, along with spouses of ROC citizens. Now I have received the following notice (Details below) from my employer, indicating that the need to apply for a separate annually renewable work permit has been superimposed on the APRC holders. I read this to mean that the APRC entitles me to stay but that I am going to have to reapply annually to work, and go through the physical exam, etc., which I previously had to do only once, at the time of applying for the APRC. Does this represent a real redefinition of the meaning of “APRC”, or is it simply my employer’s attempt to assert some sort of annual “property right” over me, which was lost when I was no longer required to seek help each year from them with ARC renewal? Comments or similar experiences welcome.

Details:
…
I. Application for renewing employment contracts must be made sixty days prior to the termination of the existing contract.

II. Foreign teachers can make the application in three ways:

A) For the person who is married with an ROC citizen and who holds a residence permit in Taiwan is allowed to work without the working permit but with submission of the photocopy of the residence certificate for foreigners and overseas Chinese.

B) For the person who is employed by an institution or organization must submit the following four documents:
1.) two one-inch bust photos and filling up the courses to be taught in the forthcoming year;
2.) a photocopy of the recent issue of payroll and a photocopy of the tax-return statement;
3.) a physical examination certificate made within three months, including such categories as the immune anti-virus, the chest X ray, the V. D. disease blood test, and the overall physical checkup (including the mental status).
4.) The photocopy of the alien residence certificate.

C) For the person who has an immediate relative in Taiwan or possesses a permanent residence certificate can apply, by individual, to the central government for employment but should submit to the Personnel Office of CCU both the photocopy of the working permit and the photocopy of the residence certificate for foreigners and overseas Chinese. If not by individual, this person has to follow the same procedure as in the B category.

While the photocopies of the documents and certificates are to be submitted for application, their original copies must be brought along to be checked by the Personnel Office. The duplicates must be signed by the applicant to take the full legal responsibility for any discrepancy or inaccuracy.

2

Hi,
Is it possible that this is something to do with the fact that it’s a teaching job at a university?

I know one of the reasons I quit my uni job a few years back was the requirement that I have an annual syphilis test. (Not that I thought I had it, but I felt it was patently unfair for me to be the ONLY teacher at the school who had to be tested – of course the local teachers had no such requirement, and let me tell you I could point out a few of 'em who might have wondered after trips to Thailand… :astonished: )

In other words, is this some kind of (admittedly stupid, but…) additional requirement that could be looked at as some weird kind of “licensure” to (continue doing the same job) teach? I’m not defending it – sounds full of cr@p to me – but is that what they’re thinking of?

I tell you, at this point I’m THIS far from just throwing it all in here. I know Taiwan doesn’t want a lot of “immigrants”, but they might think about the real meaning of the word “reciprocity” now and then, especially if they expect my country to send the fleet over every time China starts to rattle the sabers. :smiling_imp:

3

PJM: Let me see if I can clarify. A lot of people continue to be confused by this. Let me summarize:

A PERMANENT RESIDENCE CERTFICATE DOES NOT CONFER THE RIGHT TO WORK AUTOMATICALLY. YOU STILL HAVE TO GET A WORK PERMIT.

Here’s what the Employment Services Law says:

  1. Most foreigners do not apply for their own work permits. Instead their employer applies for a work permit that authorizes the employer to employ the foreigners.

  2. Some foreigners, including those who has PARC and those with ARCs obtained through marriage, may (in other words have the option of) apply for their own work permit. In other words, they don’t need to go through their employer. The Work Permit regulations call these foreigners ‘Class IV Foreigners.’

Note that [1] the law says that Class IV foreigners MAY apply for a work permit. This means that the employer can apply for a work permit if the Class IV foreigner did not apply for her won work permit. Also note that there is no distinction IN THE LAW between married Class IV foreigners and PARC Class IV foreigners. Both sub-classes have the same two routes to a work permit: either they apply for their own work permit OR their employer applies for a work permit on their behalf. IN EITHER CASE, a work permit IS REQUIRED.

Now let’s turn to the Work Permit regulations.

[3] Chapter V is begins with a long article (36) detailing how an employer can apply for a work permit for a Class IV foreigner. The length and order (first) of this Article suggests to me that the authorities still envision the employer as applying for a work permit for the employee. This is what your employer is talking about in Part C: " If not by individual, this person has to follow the same procedure as in the B category."

[4] Article 38 of the Work Permit Regulations details what documentation you need as a Class IV foreigner to apply for work permit. Basically, this is just your passport, ARC or PARC, and an application.

[5] Incredibly, the employer then applies for pemission for you to work based on the work permit you applied for under Article 38. This is really just a formality though.

So, no new work permit requirement is being imposed on you. You have always needed a work permit. You fall under category C in your employer’s notice:

"For the person who has an immediate relative in Taiwan or possesses a permanent residence certificate can apply, by individual, to the central government for employment but should submit to the Personnel Office of CCU both the photocopy of the working permit and the photocopy of the residence certificate for foreigners and overseas Chinese. "

[note: I believe that the requirement that you submit a photocopy of your residence certificate in not grounded in the law. If you have the work permit, you must have a resdence certificate, so why do you have to submit this again? It’s obviously not worth fighting about though.]

In practice I believe that the police and the CLA allow married foreigners with ARCs to work without work permits [the MOE and the GIO do not agree with this though]. This what your employer is talking about in A. However, this practice is not supported by the law. The law says that all Class IV foreigners need work permits. Married foreigners with ARCs are Class IB foreigners. They need to appy for work permits too. The exemption is by administrative fiat. Sigh.

hth

feiren

4

[quote=“ironlady”]
I tell you, at this point I’m THIS far from just throwing it all in here. I know Taiwan doesn’t want a lot of “immigrants”, but they might think about the real meaning of the word “reciprocity” now and then, especially if they expect my country to send the fleet over every time China starts to rattle the sabers. :smiling_imp:[/quote]

Ironlady: I’m sure you’ll be amused to hear that the Ministry of the Interior is amending the Nationality Law again to require that naturalizing foreigners be able to pass a basic test in one of the National Langauges (Guoyu). The cited reason for this new requirement was the principle of reciprocity. I would call this the principle of selective reciprocity. Nothing was said at all about the complete absence of reciprocity on the renunciation of original nationality though. The amended law will still require foreigners to renounce their original nationality when acquiring Taiwanese nationality even though the US does not require Taiwanese to do this when they acquire US citizenship. :fume:

5

To my two respondents, thanks for the advice. It seems to raise two issues, one backward-looking and one forward-looking.

First, since I have been working without applying for the work permit for the first three years of holding the APRC (each year in June I have called the Foreign Affairs Police and asked them whether I need to do anything at contract renewal time - and each year they have said “no”), is this going to become a retroactive catch-22 when I go to apply in 2004?

Second, what’s involved in applying for the individual work permit direct to the government (and to what branch of government, BTW?) How long does the process take, what documents are required, and how long is it good for? If I can’t complete the process within 18 days, by May 10th, it sounds as if I had better opt for the “employer-based” solution, at least this year. If I use that avenue once, am I then barred from doing the individual thing some time in the future? Honestly, I thought all this was behind me… he, he… no I’m really not surprised but hope springs eternal.

pjm

6

You apply to the CLA on Yanping North Road. It’s really easy and takes only a few days. You’ll need to call them to check on the exact documentation. This is the only number I could find on the web site: 0800808011.

I would get my work permit from the CLA. It’s really easy.

Feiren

7

For God’s sake! My bust is WAY bigger than one inch. And why do they need pics of my boobies?

8

[quote=“Feiren”]
Ironlady: I’m sure you’ll be amused to hear that the Ministry of the Interior is amending the Nationality Law again to require that naturalizing foreigners be able to pass a basic test in one of the National Langauges (Guoyu). The cited reason for this new requirement was the principle of reciprocity. I would call this the principle of selective reciprocity. Nothing was said at all about the complete absence of reciprocity on the renunciation of original nationality though. The amended law will still require foreigners to renounce their original nationality when acquiring Taiwanese nationality even though the US does not require Taiwanese to do this when they acquire US citizenship. :fume:[/quote]

Yeah, and Taiwanese don’t need a frigging guarantor to go outside their homes in the US… :fume: :fume:

9

Sorry, but when it comes to people with ARC’s based on marriage, then they don’t need to apply for a work permit. ESA Article 48 states that rather clearly.

10

[quote=“ironlady”][quote=“Feiren”]
Ironlady: I’m sure you’ll be amused to hear that the Ministry of the Interior is amending the Nationality Law again to require that naturalizing foreigners be able to pass a basic test in one of the National Langauges (Guoyu). The cited reason for this new requirement was the principle of reciprocity. I would call this the principle of selective reciprocity. Nothing was said at all about the complete absence of reciprocity on the renunciation of original nationality though. The amended law will still require foreigners to renounce their original nationality when acquiring Taiwanese nationality even though the US does not require Taiwanese to do this when they acquire US citizenship. :fume:[/quote]

Yeah, and Taiwanese don’t need a frigging guarantor to go outside their homes in the US… :fume: :fume:[/quote]

D’you ever get the feeling they’re having a good old laugh at us ? :fume:

11

No rather one of being abused…

It’s a catch phrase used to make things worse for us and better for them.

12

There have been many posters to these forumosa.com forums who have been confused about this aspect.

13

There have been many posters to these forumosa.com forums who have been confused about this aspect.[/quote]

… and that cleared that up. :help:

14

There have been many posters to these forumosa.com forums who have been confused about this aspect.[/quote]

… and that cleared that up. :help:[/quote]

To summarize what was discussed in the the latest thread under starting business in Taiwan, it basically went like this:

Some people: Law says there’s no requirement for a work permit.
Other people: But the practice doesn’t jive with the law. There’s confusion.
Some people: But the law is clear about this.
Other people: Seems certain ministry and department folks haven’t gotten the law memo yet.
Some people: The law is the law is the law.
Other people: The law isn’t a big help if the ministries and others don’t follow it.
…

Basically, in my view, the law is clear on marriage-based ARCs. Marriage-based ARC holders (those who have a JFRV) do not need employers to sponsor them a work permit. They are automatically granted permission to work as if they were a ROC National. In practice, however the HR, Accounting, Tax folks at the companies you’re looking to be hired at are confused about this. What I’ve seen ranges from, you’re wrong, you need a work permit and we won’t let you work because we don’t want to do a work permit for you —> Uh, ok, so the law says this, then what do we do??? Can you find out for us???

It’s :loco: I tell you … just your typical Taiwanese bogosity :loco:

15

What you should be aware of is that the English version of the law does not say this at all. It gives foreign spouses no exemption whatsoever from the the regualtions that restrict foreign workers to a few categories fo work.

The law in the original Chinese, on the other hand (as far as I can tell) does give such an exemption.

So when you are reading these laws, just be aware that the English version may not be the same as the Chinese :slight_smile:

Brian

16

when i got my marriage arc, i specifically asked the guy who gave it to me if i could take a job anywhere i wanted now that i had the thing, and he said “yes”. memo still on it’s way to taoyuan? :laughing:

17

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]

The law in the original Chiense, on the other hand (as far as I can tell) does give such n exemption.

So when you are reading these laws, just be aware that the English version may not be the same as the Chinese :slight_smile:

Brian[/quote]

Well, good thing it’s this way and not the other way around, since most English government documents now stipulate that in the case of a discrepancy, the Chinese version shall prevail. :sunglasses:

18

[quote=“Feiren”][quote=“ironlady”]
I tell you, at this point I’m THIS far from just throwing it all in here. I know Taiwan doesn’t want a lot of “immigrants”, but they might think about the real meaning of the word “reciprocity” now and then, especially if they expect my country to send the fleet over every time China starts to rattle the sabers. :smiling_imp:[/quote]

Ironlady: I’m sure you’ll be amused to hear that the Ministry of the Interior is amending the Nationality Law again to require that naturalizing foreigners be able to pass a basic test in one of the National Langauges (Guoyu). The cited reason for this new requirement was the principle of reciprocity. I would call this the principle of selective reciprocity. Nothing was said at all about the complete absence of reciprocity on the renunciation of original nationality though. The amended law will still require foreigners to renounce their original nationality when acquiring Taiwanese nationality even though the US does not require Taiwanese to do this when they acquire US citizenship. :fume:[/quote]

You people bitch and moan about reciprocity. It’s up to each country to decide it’s own immigration procedures. Foreign workers needs to pass medicals in the USA so why should you be exempt here… I mean shit… I forgot, you’re American :loco: :loco:

Some countries require that people pass a language test before gaining citizenship, so why should Taiwan be any different. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

As discussed in another thread most countries in the world do not allow dual nationality. :blush: :blush: Some do… some require that you lose your own should you aquire another, some require you to renounce to become on of theirs… reciprocity… you guys dream too much… :loco: :loco: :loco:

There are many people who choose to become ROC nationals… they know the procudres required to become an ROC national. If you don’t like the rules here, tough shit… stop whinging about it all the time…

19

[quote=“ironlady”] I know one of the reasons I quit my uni job a few years back was the requirement that I have an annual syphilis test.

(Not that I thought I had it, but I felt it was patently unfair for me to be the ONLY teacher at the school who had to be tested – of course the local teachers had no such requirement, and let me tell you I could point out a few of 'em who might have wondered after trips to Thailand… :astonished: )

[/quote]

Ahh the old finger pointing and blame game… it’s not fair yada yada yada… maybe you quit because you saw an opportunity elsewhere :slight_smile: :slight_smile: , or maybe you did have a medical condition you didn’t want brought to public attention… :blush: :blush:

Does the USA require locally born citizens to take medical exams… no… but those aquiring residency… yes… those foreign workers… yes…

So whats the big deal… if you’re clean you have no problems… Some people have taken medicals to find out that they have a medical condition missed during their annual checkups…

I have a friend who found out he has Hepatitis C… picked up whilst living in Taiwan… he took a medical for his immigration visa to Australia… He was able to take treatment that brought his count levels down enough to be passed for residency in Australia… and without that test he may have carried it for many years and not known about it…