I am contemplating going to Taiwan to teach English but I’ve heard that schools are less likely to hire someone if s/he is not Caucasian? Now, I do consider English my native language as I was born, raised, and educated in America my whole life. I have so-so qualifications as I hold a college degree and I have some experience teaching to kids but are my chances of employment hurt because I don’t necessarily look like the typical English speaker that they may be looking for?
Also, is it worth getting a TESL/TEFL/TESOL certificate?
If anyone can help me out I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
But, the answer is that there will be some schools that will not hire you because they want a certain look from their teachers, but there are still many that will. You can still find lots of good opportunities.
My gf is a Canadian born Chinese. She found the job search to be very difficult. Having observed the frustration and rejection my partner went through during her job search (and will have to go through again when she gets back from her trip home), I disagree with Puiwaihin’s belief that only “some schools” will not hire FBCs and that “many” will. I believe the condition to be the opposite. You will find some schools that will hire you, but many will not. Of those that will, some will even try to pay you as a local teacher (substantially lower than a foreigner). Not trying to discourage you, but English teaching in Taiwan is often as much about show as it is about substance. Parents have skewered view about the west. They equate white with English fluency. Many has been the time when my girlfriend’s English fluency was openly questioned by students and parents (this despite the fact she was born and raised in an English speaking country, majored in English literature and completed a post bachelor diploma in linguistics and language teaching). Many FBCs go on to be successful here. Quite a few also go home in disgust and frustration. If you want to come here, be prepared for a little frustration and discrimination.
Just depends on who you will be teaching: kids/adults? At a school or corporate? Through agency or private?
No worries, you’re only at a disadvantage if you view it that way. And remember, it’s a different culture here, so don’t expect everything to be pc. As long as you come here with the expectation that hiring practices might differ, then you’ll do fine.
Toasty is right, and now here’s the biggest irony…
I’ve seen Europeans being hired with not very strong English skills (eg, from Germany, France… even Russia), over a native English speaker who looks Chinese.
I don’t even blame the schools half the time. They only provide what the parents want.
P.S. There are many Europeans from non-English countries with an excellent command of English. I was just referring to some specific cases I have seen.
[quote=“irishstu”]Toasty is right, and now here’s the biggest irony…
I’ve seen Europeans being hired with not very strong English skills (eg, from Germany, France… even Russia), over a native English speaker who looks Chinese.
I don’t even blame the schools half the time. They only provide what the parents want.
P.S. There are many Europeans from non-English countries with an excellent command of English. I was just referring to some specific cases I have seen.[/quote]
Sadly enough, I’ve seen it, too.
But at the schools I’ve taught at there have been ABC’s being paid foreign teacher wages. You may want to try working for a larger chain school first off.
I’m an American of Chinese decent, I’ve lived in Taiwan for 8 years, and have had very few problems finding teaching work.
I’ve worked at all sorts of places, from the fly-by-night cram schools to chain schools to government organizations. I taught children for a short while, and taught adults here for four years. I really enjoyed the experience.
Of course, I’ve occasionally run into students who have questioned my credibility (unfairly), but as an experienced teacher with training, it never turned out to be a problem. Overal,l being an “ABC” has never threatened my position or standing at the workplace, although I’m aware it’s not always the case for some (as per the previous post about the Canadian).
That said, my advice to you is if you don’t have any formal ESL experience or training, try starting out at one of the chain schools (Hess or Kojen are the two big ones, and generally OK to work for) – your mileage will vary as far as the conditions, but you’ll get the skills you need to move on to better gigs.
As for getting a TEFL/TESOL certificate, I never got one, and I don’t see the need. If you’re serious about a career in ESL, you’d want to look into a Masters program.
Good luck, feel free to send me a PM or post here with any other questions.
That said, my advice to you is if you don’t have any formal ESL experience or training, try starting out at one of the chain schools (Hess or Kojen are the two big ones, and generally OK to work for) – your mileage will vary as far as the conditions, but you’ll get the skills you need to move on to better gigs.
As for getting a TEFL/TESOL certificate, I never got one, and I don’t see the need. If you’re serious about a career in ESL, you’d want to look into a Masters program.
Good luck, feel free to send me a PM or post here with any other questions.
-David Chen[/quote]
This would have been my suggestion. Start with a big cram school IF you can’t find a better smaller place.
Several years ago I met a young Asian-American girl from southern California. She had no problem securing employment and she didn’t even speak a word of Chinese. What made her stand out was that she recently graduated with her B.Ed, had a K-4 Cert., and a K-12 reading endoresment. I believe she only stayed a year because she knew she could get paid much more elsewhere with the qualifications she had.
It is widely known that many Overseas Chinese have very poor English ability in spite of having spent long periods of time in the schools of English-speaking countries. The tightening job market is making it harder for inexperienced teachers, much less for someone whose background makes it possible that their English is less than completely fluent. There are employers that will hire Overseas Chinese with a passport from an English-speaking country. I have never worked for a major chain school, but my understanding is that many of them have no difficulty with qualified, coloured applicants. There are also schools whose operators can not speak English very well and schools whose location outside Taipei makes it hard for them to attract applicants. While it may be difficult at first, I have seen far too many successful ABC, CBC, and black people teaching in Taiwan to believe that it is impossible.
My GF who is Asian, but native fluency and native accent in English and a far better understanding of grammar than most native speakers, and one of the better teachers I have met, faces many challenges in getting hired and paid as a foreign teacher.
I guess a lot depends on who you meet. Her current boss who is American has no problem paying and treating her as a foreign teacher, but sometimes the parents complain. (I-white native speaker - did a demo at the same school and didn’t get hired)
I think one of the problems is that often the people who do the interviewing do not have high proficiency in English and they cannot truly judge how good her English is.
Another problem is definitely the parents. They see a white face, and they assume the person is a native speaker. Many of the schools succumb to this pressure from the parents. Seems a bit hit and miss. Some seem to have fairly good experiences, others find it a constant battle.
I disagree with the first part of your post. This thread doesn’t deal with people who’ve merely gone overseas to study English; it deals with people who’ve been born, raised and educated in English speaking countries-- from kindy through uni. These people are westerners in every respect. Their English is completely fluent. I have never met an FBC (real FBC…B meaning born) who was not as fluent in English as any other westerner.
You are, in effect, expressing the same viewpoint many parents here believe: Asian face=not fluent in English; White face=fluent. That’s a load of bull.
I don’t agree that employers are behind this, due to their English abilities. It’s actually parents, who speak no English, that are mostly to blame. That and the face value of being able to say ‘my kid has a white western teacher.’
I’m not trying to say it’s impossible for FBCs. It’s not by a longshot. I just think that an FBC needs to be prepared for some rejections based on nothing more than their heritage.
[quote=“Toasty”]
I disagree with the first part of your post. This thread doesn’t deal with people who’ve merely gone overseas to study English; it deals with people who’ve been born, raised and educated in English speaking countries-- from kindy through uni. These people are westerners in every respect. Their English is completely fluent. I have never met an FBC (real FBC…B meaning born) who was not as fluent in English as any other westerner.
[/quote] I have, though its rare. Less rare are ABCs and CBCs who moved to the west at an early age (3 or 4) and are still not completely fluent even after graduating from university.
Don’t forget, in places like Vancouver it is possible for a chid born there not to speak or be exposed to much English until kindergarten age. Such kids enter school essentially a 2nd language learner. If they go to school with too many other second language learners their fluency can becomes severely retarded.
Such a situation also happened during the last century in Scandanavian and Ukrainian communities. Thorstein Veblen is one of the more famous examples. Despite being born in America, and receiving advanced education he did not achieve fluency in the English language until university and still spoke with a heavy accent all his life.
However, I agree with you that this is not the concern of most schools when they consider hiring an Asian looking teacher.
BTW, you live in Taoyuan, right? When I was there I found the environment far more prejudiced than in Taipei.
I agree that it’s not students who are the prime movers in this situation, but have you actually spoken to parents or employers about why they are prejudiced against Overseas Chinese teachers?
I did hear once that it had to do with their children not being afraid to speak English to a “real” foreigner in later life.
What I mean is that some of them can speak great English to Chinese-looking people, but when confronted by a funny-looking “big nose”, they kind of freak out.
That’s a reason that some parents report. Foreign teachers who are concerned with this problem (some of whom are ABC,etc.) have a lot of opinions about their perceptions of this problem. I’m just wondering if any of them have spoken with parents or employers about why they would have this prejudice. I have spoken to a huge number of students, employers, and parents about this and have found that one of the main sources of this prejudice is Chinese teachers themselves.
Sure. Employers usually are open about why. Parents will usually evade a question like that, or lie.
True enough, to some extent. My gf and I come from Vancouver. She can remember entering Kindergarten as a second language learner. Still she went on to become as fluent as any other westerner, though perhaps her family moving out of the city and into the suburbs (Cloverdale) had something to do with that. She even majored in Literature, a department that people who don’t have full confidence in their spoken and written English ability avoid. I haven’t really seen that many truly born in Canada CBCs who don’t speak fluently though. I had a friend who spoke with a barely detectable Cantonese accent because her family came from Hong Kong (though she herself had never been there). I wouldn’t question her overall fluency though. Like you, I have seen some who have moved to Canada at a young age to study English and have not become fully fluent. My girlfriend met a friend here who moved to Toronto in elementary school (grade 6 or thereabouts) and graduated from uni there. She came here to work recently. I wouldn’t consider her English to be fluent.
The being afraid to talk to white foreigners point raised by someone is interesting. I guess race does enter into the equation. I think I would be scared if I had studied Chinese with a white teacher for years and then got plunked down here trying to communicate with Asians. Speaking a foreign language to foreign looking people is a daunting task. So, we are here to aleviate fear of talking to foreigners? Maybe.
It’s possible people out here are a little more prejudiced. We’ll see what happens when my girlfriend gets back. She’s going be looking for new employment. If it means we end up in Taipei, well, there are far worse places we could live.
No one doubts that there are Asians who speak English as well as any Caucasian. After all, language acquisition is not genetic. But do you deny that there are large numbers of Overseas Chinese who have the passports of English-speaking nations who have poor English skills?
You seem to have missed my point about parents, employers, and Chinese teachers. It is widely believed that this bias is the result of ignorance. It is not. It is the better speaking students of English, the parents who speak English, Chinese-English teachers themselves who promote the idea that ‘native speaker’ teachers are necessary. And they do this because they are aware that large numbers of Chinese teachers, overseas or local, are not the ‘real deal’.
Besides, as frustrating as it may seem in the beginning, there are many successful Overseas Chinese teachers of English in Taiwan. It’s all a matter of being able to demonstrate a high level of teaching ability
[quote=“tinman”]No one doubts that there are Asians who speak English as well as any Caucasian. After all, language acquisition is not genetic. But do you deny that there are large numbers of Overseas Chinese who have the passports of English-speaking nations who have poor English skills?
You seem to have missed my point about parents, employers, and Chinese teachers. It is widely believed that this bias is the result of ignorance. It is not. It is the better speaking students of English, the parents who speak English, Chinese-English teachers themselves who promote the idea that ‘native speaker’ teachers are necessary. And they do this because they are aware that large numbers of Chinese teachers, overseas or local, are not the ‘real deal’.
Besides, as frustrating as it may seem in the beginning, there are many successful Overseas Chinese teachers of English in Taiwan. It’s all a matter of being able to demonstrate a high level of teaching ability[/quote]
1st point. I don’t deny large numbers of “xiao liu xue sheng” do not become fully fluent in English. But those actually born in their countries of origin (and make no mistake a CBC is just as much a Canadian as a whitey, as is an ABC, BBC and so on) are fluent almost without exception.
Point 2. Yes, it is ignorance. You are suggesting that White=fluent. If the parents doing this can speak English, they can tell if someone is fluent or not. Parents I have spoken to who hold this view are usually hicks who don’t speak a single word of English. I’m actually somewhat sympathetic to them. They honestly have no way of knowing how fluent a teacher is, so they demand white because, to them, a white teacher= fluent English. You place the words native speaker in quotes. Why? My girlfriend is every bit as much a native speaker as you or I am. Yes, there are frauds who pretend to be FBCs. But, then, there are people from continental Europe and South America who pose as English teachers simply because they are white. So, what of it? So you are asserting that English speaking parents assert that “white only” [inserted in place of native speaker] teachers are necessary? Seems to be a logical extension of your argument, if we accept that people like my girlfriend are not in fact native speakers. Bottom line: I don’t agree with your premises, ergo I don’t agree with your conclusions. I got your point. I didn’t miss it. I just don’t agree in the slightest.