Are Bicycles Considered Vehicles by Taiwan Law?

Legal General Legal Matters
1

I hit a bicyclist with my car the other day. I was on a narrow one way street and was navigating a 90 degree corner. He was coming around it going the wrong way on the one way. So we all know that the fault should be 100% his. But what does Taiwan law say?

In Canada any bike with tires larger than a small child’s bike is the same as a motorbike and has to follow all traffic laws. Is it the same here? He told me his police friend said that only electric bikes or bikes with engines have to follow one way rules. And that bicycles can go either way.

He wasn’t hurt bad. And my car has 8,000nt in damage. So I figured I was being a nice guy by not suing him. But my wife said we should give him a red envelope…and on top of that she buys him some fruit. So now I’m out another 3,000nt. Sigh. And now of course he’s asking for more money.

So do I say “Fuck you and give me my 2,000nt (minus the fruit) back. And I’ll see you in court for the damages to my car.” or do I say “Sure. Sorry. Here’s some more of my money.”

Again…what I need here is the official letter of the law…for what that’s worth here in Taiwan.

2

[quote=“Mordeth”]I hit a bicyclist with my car the other day. I was on a narrow one way street and was navigating a 90 degree corner. He was coming around it going the wrong way on the one way. So we all know that the fault should be 100% his. But what does Taiwan law say?

In Canada any bike with tires larger than a small child’s bike is the same as a motorbike and has to follow all traffic laws. Is it the same here? He told me his police friend said that only electric bikes or bikes with engines have to follow one way rules. And that bicycles can go either way.

He wasn’t hurt bad. And my car has 8,000nt in damage. So I figured I was being a nice guy by not suing him. But my wife said we should give him a red envelope…and on top of that she buys him some fruit. So now I’m out another 3,000nt. Sigh. And now of course he’s asking for more money.

So do I say “Fuck you and give me my 2,000nt (minus the fruit) back. And I’ll see you in court for the damages to my car.” or do I say “Sure. Sorry. Here’s some more of my money.”

Again…what I need here is the official letter of the law…for what that’s worth here in Taiwan.[/quote]
I don’t know about the letter of the law, but I wouldn’t give him a dime. Common sense says he’s at fault.

3

Did you have your video rig going? Are there surveilance cameras in the lane?

He’s wrong. Bicycles are vehicles when being ridden and objects when not. Cyclists just think they can play this game both ways and always win. Tell him to piss off or sue you. If you have video, report the accident and claim damages. I’m assuming you have his contact details from his efforts to milk you.

4

I think no. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it said on here that the bicycle is not recognised as a road vehicle in Taiwan law. The phrase “fast walking” was used, i.e. its just a pedestrian wearing some sort of speed-assisting surgical appliance.

I also recall seeing some mention recently in the media that cyclists were agitating for legal recognition (why?) which further implies they don’t currently have any.

That said, it doesn’t necessarily mean no liability. Presumably pedestrians are legally liable for their actions, at least theoretically, even if not bound by the traffic regulations.

5

Did you have your video rig going? Are there surveilance cameras in the lane?

He’s wrong. Bicycles are vehicles when being ridden and objects when not. Cyclists just think they can play this game both ways and always win. Tell him to piss off or sue you. If you have video, report the accident and claim damages. I’m assuming you have his contact details from his efforts to milk you.[/quote]

No cameras or video, but the police came and made a full report. He never denied going the wrong way. And I hit the side of his bike (not head on…more of a side swipe) as he noticed me before I noticed him meaning that he wasn’t fully to the side and only started moving over when he heard my car coming. And on the police drawing that I signed you can see that my car is centered. He could have fit by me had he been fully to the side.

My wife was very nice to him and gave him money and fruit…but now that he’s asking for more she says that if someone on here can give an official link or whatnot proving that bikes are legally vehicles then we will sue him for damages to the car…since he didn’t accept our first apology.

6

Found this…but it just says they can’t run reds and have to keep to the side of the road: 168.motc.gov.tw/GIPSite/wSite/ct … =1373&mp=1

7

Well, here are my two cents. According to my observations over the past few decades, the traditional “Asian mentality” is that in any accident, the driver of the larger vehicle is at fault.

The Taiwanese also follow this “standard,” and indeed consider it a part of a MORAL approach to sorting out matters of liability.

8

By law bicycles have to follow the same road rules as motorcycles. That as made pretty clear a year or two ago when they talked briefly about cracking down on it.

9

Your statement that he was going the other way so he must be 100% at fault is faulty logic.

If he were going the wrong way down the street and you were drunk would he be 100% at fault?

If he was blind and didn’t realize he was going the wrong way would he be 100% at fault?

If he was going the wrong way but carefully cautiously and you came flying around the corner at twice the posted speed limit would he be 100% at fault?

I agree he definitely bears a certain portion of the fault, but I’d need to know more to apportion it between the two of you. I’d want to understand better why you didn’t see him and stop in time. Were you driving too fast down a narrow alley? If a small child ran out in the street would you have ploughed him/her down?

I’m not blaming you. I don’t know the facts. Just saying it may not be so clear.

10

Just make sure the cops don’t watch your videos of you driving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ7gYgFFxRY&feature=channel

11

[quote=“Hartzell”]Well, here are my two cents. According to my observations over the past few decades, the traditional “Asian mentality” is that in any accident, the driver of the larger vehicle is at fault.

The Taiwanese also follow this “standard,” and indeed consider it a part of a MORAL approach to sorting out matters of liability.[/quote]

This was true in the past, but not now. If a motorbike runs a red you hit them and kill them chances are you won’t have to pay a penny…since they ran a red.

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Your statement that he was going the other way so he must be 100% at fault is faulty logic.

If he were going the wrong way down the street and you were drunk would he be 100% at fault?

If he was blind and didn’t realize he was going the wrong way would he be 100% at fault?

If he was going the wrong way but carefully cautiously and you came flying around the corner at twice the posted speed limit would he be 100% at fault?

I agree he definitely bears a certain portion of the fault, but I’d need to know more to apportion it between the two of you. I’d want to understand better why you didn’t see him and stop in time. Were you driving too fast down a narrow alley? If a small child ran out in the street would you have ploughed him/her down?

I’m not blaming you. I don’t know the facts. Just saying it may not be so clear.[/quote]

It’s a 90 degree corner. Can you see around 90 degree corners? My son was sleeping in the back of the car and I wasn’t going fast. And the man admited that he wasn’t on the side of the road…and that he was moving off to the side when he heard me coming.

So we have a man on a bicycle approaching a blind corner in the middle (or not to the very side) of the road…going the wrong way down a one way. And the police drawing shows that I my car was where it should have been…as in centered in its lane.

And with regards to " If a small child ran out in the street would you have ploughed him/her down?" , most likely…since that’s what happens every day when children run out onto streets unexpectedly.

12

How could I get this “law” reaffirmed? Is there someplace I could go? Police wouldn’t know. Or a link or anything?

If I take a printed out copy of the law…then he might just give up and pay me for damages. He already told me that his cop buddy told him that bicycles can go either way on a one way…so I need some proof that he’s wrong.

13

A Taiwanese friend sent me this: law.moj.gov.tw/Scripts/Query4A.a … FLNO=73-76

And he assures me that “slow vehicle” includes bicycles. But now I need to confirm that…sigh.

14

It may be that he was at fault, but any damages might still need to be claimed from your insurance. That’s quite common in a number of countries - maybe not in Canada but it is certainly in many, if not most, European countries.

The laws there, and maybe here, treat bicycles for liability purposes in the same way as pedestrians. That is, even if the pedestrian or cyclist does not follow the rules of the road, it is your insurance that foots the entire bill for damages. This is a method to ensure that there is at least some insurance coverage for a serious accident.

So if you want compensation, not only do you need to show the cyclist broke the rules of the road but you also need to be sure that they are liable.

As for your claim of not being 100% at fault, I’ve mentioned this in another thread - if you go round a blind corner at a speed that you cannot stop if there is an obstruction, and then you hit something, then you’re at fault. Seeing that the hit caused 8000 NT worth of damage I’d say the collision speed wasn’t that slow. Of course, maybe the cyclist was belting towards you and you were going extremely slowly so he was entirely at fault, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s liable.

15

I once had a similar experience. I was driving at reasonable speed up a mountain road when a guy on a bike came around a blind corner crossed into the oncoming lane and hit my car. He was going so fast that had I not been there to ‘catch’ him he’d have shot off the road into a canyon.
He wasn’t badly hurt (a few scrapes) and while still in a bit of shock admitted that he was practicing for a race and going too fast. When a few other people stopped to gawp he changed his tune to ‘it wasn’t my fault’, jumped on his bike and pedaled off before I could stop him. All I could do was photograph the scene and call the cops. Of course the cops were useless.

“Did you get his name or ID?”
“No, and of course he didn’t have a license plate.”
“Nothing we can do then.”
" :raspberry: "

I sure hope he did eventually launch himself to a painful death without anyone there to even notice.

16

I’m sure there’s a post somewhere with Tash and a taxi driver when she was going the wrong way but I can’t find it. Anyone know it - I think it was quite funny?

17

A small victory -The original story!

18

A small victory -The original story![/quote]

:bravo: :notworthy: :bravo:

19

Damn, your wife just doesn’t understand Taiwan culture.

He was wrong but you are screwed now because your wife admitted you were at fault by offering the gifts. I would just tell the old fart to fuck off and count himself lucky that he got anything.

20

[quote=“llary”]Damn, your wife just doesn’t understand Taiwan culture.

He was wrong but you are screwed now because your wife admitted you were at fault by offering the gifts. I would just tell the old fart to fuck off and count himself lucky that he got anything.[/quote]

I’m fairly certain that Taiwan law backs me up. And the fact that he accepted our “gift” should have meant that he was satisfied. You can’t take someone’s offer of apology and then phone them later and ask for more. So I’m going to go to his house and tell him if he didn’t like our original offer than he should hand it back…and then sue us. And if he keeps it…then by doing so he has accepted our “apology” and it’s over and done with.

And I’ll of course be recording this. That’s my plan anyway…any objections?

Oh…plan B is to say to him "Well we’ve already given you 2,000nt for your injuries…how about I give you another 3,000nt to make it 5? And since your bike did 10,000nt damage to my car while illegally going the wrong way down a one way…that means you still owe me 5,000nt…plus the 2,000 I already gave you.