Are You Severely Compromising your Long-term Health by Living in Taiwan?


#61

Have you got a source I can look at on this issue? I'm not disagreeing; this is just something I've been curious about before.


#62

I used to disdain those who don a surgical mask in public, and now I've taken to the practice just to be on the safe side.


#63

Stats jump all over the place but this is from Taipower's head around 2001:

What's revealing in the debate is the same bullshit about energy shortages was made over 10 years ago when CSB cancelled the 4th plant. Remember at that time the plant was supposed to be ready in 2004. So why haven't we had an energy crisis since then?

In fact according to Taipower just last month:

Which should mean that currently we are above the legal limit.

Yet as I wrote, 11 years ago it was all dire predictions. From an American Chamber of Commerce Report:

Notice all those brown outs over the years? No, me either.

Notice how we still seem to have a decent reserve capacity? Yep. Crisis is always on the horizon.


#64

Well overall nuclear powder doesn't really discharge any pollution, almost all of it is in the waste it produces, which doesn't actually take up that much space, just highly dangerous. Taiwan also has one of the highest percentages for coal power in the world, not sure why they would want that as it makes them highly dependent on foreign imports.


#65

Okay, update from the Atomic Energy Commision. Nuclear's share is even lower these days, at only 16.9%.

The interesting thing is the increase in LNG which according to the report from 2001 the country just couldn't afford. Again, it's all bullshit folks that we need nuclear or that coal is the only option otherwise.

If the fourth plant is not built we will have no energy shortage.

And here's an idea for Taipower. Turn the plant into a museum. They could easily get 2-3 million visitors a year given the location which would probably generate higher revenues than selling electricity.


#66

Supposedly they have more than enough reserve power on hands through the private operators. Taipower didn't mind doing this as you can imagine the lucrative positions the executives managed to find themselves post retirement.

I'm sure there are plenty of low hanging industrial targets alog with energy savings programs that can be implemented. Nuclear power is not that cheap if one takes into account the decommissioning costs (billions), ever increasing safety costs (new wall and other work to finish 4th reactor would cost an 2 billion all in). The problem with storage is very real with most fuel waste just sitting on site and already far beyond the original storage limits.

There are alternatives such as natural gas or increasing energy costs to reduce demand, if they are more expensive that's the price to pay for a better environment overall.

Last question; why is energy demand increasing? Shouldn't it be tailing off or decreasing when the factories migrated to China? I have a feeling there are a few power hungry steel factories and refineries accounting for much of this rise.


#67

Taipower was saying recently that there could be a 40% rise in rates if the plant is not opened. I had to laugh. My current electricity bill was NT1400 for two months. So that would mean an extra NT280 a month. How will I survive????? Maybe if I didn't have a hot water tank running 24-7 just to make tea I could lower my bill? Or maybe if I installed heavy curtains on my windows I wouldn't have to run aircon all day in summer.


#68

And yet, if they hiked prices 40%, the plebs would be out on the streets with pitchforks and flaming torches, even though Taiwan's retail electricity prices would still be way below what they are in Europe.

If they actually bit the bullet and stopped selling electricity for less than it costs to generate it, demand would fall. If they hiked it a bit more, those dodgy steel mills and whatnot that HH mentions would go out of business, and demand would fall even more. Good for Taiwan, not good for those skimming off the cream.


#69

I don't even use electric water heater, just gas ones. Although I really hate gas running out in the middle of a shower.


#70

Not really. Gasoline prices have managed to rise steadily without riots. Same with housing, food, education, etc. I think people would learn to accept it like anything else.


#71

hmmm ... that's true. I guess the trick is to do it slowly slowly so people don't notice :slight_smile:

Question is, then: why haven't they done it?


#72

Sorry for being dickish. My reply to your comment was off base


#73

Or better windows. I am astonished by how shitty windows and doors are here.


#74

Well they did, to a degree. Rates are up.

But yeah it is weird that raising electricity is such a political suicide venture. Maybe because people think it's generated here so the gov has control over it, unlike gas.

Of course it seems that way in Canada too. Gasoline rates would go up all the time and people would accept it, but when gas for heating went up, or electricity is was time to bring out the pitchforks.


#75

A big chuck of non-industrial power consumption comes in the form of lighting. LED lighting is becoming more competitive, is on track to become much more affordable in the near future, and reduces the amount of electricity needed for lighting substantially. Taiwan has many domestic LED lighting firms. I just can't think of a possible solution :unamused:


#76

:laughing: But all those LED factories need a lot of energy. Taiwan's solution will be to build more coal plants so we can build more LEDs to allow the rest of the world to use less energy. Kind of like the solar panel industry here.


#77

There are SO many things that Taiwan could do to improve itself and lift itself up at the same time. They produce a large % of the worlds 'green' products right here! The first time I saw an LED used for public lighting was yesterday in Taichung city. I've seen about 3 houses or buildings with solar panels on them and one little solar farm wedged into the back of the nuclear power plant in Kending.

The only obvious 'green' implantation are the huge wind turbines that have gone up all around the coast, which are my least favourite renewable and low power solution.

Integrate the renewables with electric scooters and vehicles (all of which can be produced in taiwan) and you've got something that could work well.

These are the big tech solutions, there are also plenty of practical policies that could achieve just as much like insulation and forcing some of the big energy users to change the way they do things and encourage lighter industry instead.

Anyway...Taiwan could and can reinvent the way it does things and make money at the same time. It would just be different folks that made the money that do now.


#78

One article I was reading lately on the nuclear power "controversy" was trying to make the case that Taiwan really couldn't cut down as much on energy as greenies think. The reasons given were risible: because western countries had only achieved a certain level Taiwan could not hope to do better or likely even match. Never was it admitted that Taiwan is starting from a ridiculously low base, with things like window gaps in near every apartment, and no insulation despite everyone using aircon.


#79

Electric scooters in the market now is so low powered that no one would use them. They have a top speed of 40 kph


#80

How fast do you need to get to 7-Eleven or to the corner to dump your garbage?