And it doesn’t bother anybody that it’s stored electronically with no central hub, no regulators, no organizational structure, no legal framework, no government agencies protecting it, no insurance to protect it? Have you ever heard of anything done in cyberspace where hackers weren’t 2 steps ahead of everybody else? I sure as hell wouldn’t have any of my money in something so precarious. You think the government is going to invest any time and money investigating Bit Coin crimes? Good luck
So now Bit Coin is a threat to the government? I’ll have my “I told you so” ready and waiting Charlie :discodance:
Central Banks won’t allow this to happen. So what’s left. Random merchants right?
Yeah nothing to see here folks. Lots of currencies fluctuate 48% from 1240 - 650 in a single day.
By the way I should clarify. I find the technology behind Bit Coin very promising. I just find Bit Coin itself to be a total pump and dump. The actual technology, when mixed with government and legal regulation will have a strong future. Bit Coins themselves are stupid though, and it’s not going to end well for anybody piling in at the top (whatever that eventual top may be)
It doesn’t need government regulation. The problem was the way Bitcoin was set up ,there are other Internet currencies that could probably do a much better job as long as they prevent swings in volatility.
Bitcoin cannot be hacked in a conventional sense.
Each coin has a unique identifier and cannot be copied. Most Bitcoins have already been printed,
Only 21 million can exist in total but you can split bitcoins into 100 pieces…
Bitcoin is just a forerunner of future encrypted currencies.
The idea of a central bank being the arbitrar of what is a currency is going to be outdated.
Volatility isn’t something you can just prevent, it has a life of it’s own. A stable currency needs to be backed by something in order to work. Digital currencies without the help of government and central banks will never be without volatility because they aren’t backed by anything real. The US Dollar is backed by the full power of the US economy and there is nothing stronger than that. Who in their right mind would convert a significant amount of their net worth into something that could literally disappear the next morning?
If digital currencies are to have a future beyond a simple payment system, they will need to be backed, regulated, insured, enforced, and supported by the government and central banks. Without that, you’re just buying tulips :loco:
A digital currency cannot disappear, they follow mathematical principles that are hard wired into the currency. They are actually much harder to mess with than typical central bank backed currencies.
So the problem goes back to volatility, Bitcoin was designed to be a ‘hard finite currency’ that is impossible to forge or to print to death but it was not designed to smoothen out volatility.
I get your point that governments have the power to affect the value of these currencies but maybe in a few years the balance of power will change. Maybe the financial powers will take to it.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]A digital currency cannot disappear, they follow mathematical principles that are hard wired into the currency. They are actually much harder to mess with than typical central bank backed currencies.
So the problem goes back to volatility, Bitcoin was designed to be a ‘hard finite currency’ that is impossible to forge or to print to death but it was not designed to smoothen out volatility.
I get your point that governments have the power to affect the value of these currencies but maybe in a few years the balance of power will change. Maybe the financial powers will take to it.[/quote]Maybe the problem isn’t so much with Bitcoin, but the underlying currencies used to buy it.
Who said anything about it disappearing? Things don’t have to disappear to become virtually worthless. Bit Coins will be spit out until it runs it’s course and there are 21 million of them. So? That doesn’t mean they will be worth anything.
Sea shells aren’t worth anything anymore either, despite the fact that they used to be used as dollars in many parts of the world. They aren’t gone, but they are virtually worthless. So are dozens of forms of currency that people lose faith in.
Again there’s that reference to volatility, but volatility isn’t a thing that you can just simply prevent. One thing makes volatility go away, and that’s confidence. Bit Coin would have to achieve a level of confidence similar to other currencies in order for people to actually be able to deal in it. That gets back to governments and central banks supporting it by giving it some credibility. If they support it, it has a chance. If they don’t, well good luck Bit Coin because it has nothing a currency needs to be successful:
It has to be widely accepted by both buyers and sellers, individuals and institutions.
It has to be backed by something
It has to be regulated and enforced against theft and corruption
It has to be supported with liquidity for trading
It has to be insured against losses
It must have barriers to entry from other competition
As of now, Bit Coin is just a speculative buying frenzy and the fact that it can’t be changed or altered is going to be it’s Achilles heel. Maybe a digital currency will be developed that solves some of the fundamental problems I listed above, but Bit Coin by it’s very design can’t adapt to what’s needed.
There is no reason on earth to think a Bit Coin is “worth” anything at this point. There are many scarce things in the world, some of them valuable, but we aren’t tempted to start using them as currency until they start meeting some of the requirements of a stable currency.
Bitcoin is huge in Germany and parts of Europe because you can avoid the 20+% vat charges and their is no money nor real trail to connect the people doing the transaction. The Euros have gotten super serious about cracking bank secrecy.
Bitcoin is actually China’s 2nd big internet currency to have imploded due to govt policy and changes. It’s down, but definitely not out.
The country a person is from has no bearing on the fact that Bit Coin has no serious future as a currency. As an alternative payment system it has some potential that’s for sure, but just not as a currency. I could be from the the Antarctic and it wouldn’t make Bit Coin any more viable. It has nothing going for it in terms of being a stable currency.
May I remind you, people were trading in their houses to buy tulip bulbs as well. The number of people who pile on, and whether Germans like it or not doesn’t change anything. Bit Coin is the absolute epitome of the greater fool theory.
[quote=“BrentGolf”]The country a person is from has no bearing on the fact that Bit Coin has no serious future as a currency. As an alternative payment system it has some potential that’s for sure, but just not as a currency. I could be from the the Antarctic and it wouldn’t make Bit Coin any more viable. It has nothing going for it in terms of being a stable currency.[/quote]What if you lack the frame of reference to understand the reasoning?
As far as the intrinsic value of a currency. How long does a currency really last? In what shapes or perceived valuations? I’m thinking of the dollar peg in Argentina that so badly blew up for them.
If it’s not a currency, but can be used to buy things, what do you call it?
I understand Bit Coin completely, which is why I think it’s so stupid. The better question is, why don’t you? Why don’t people just stop for a second and ask themselves: Why does this little green piece of paper in my hand actually work? Why am I able to hand somebody this piece of paper, and they hand me useful items? Hmmm, why is that?
When you can answer that question, you’ll realize why Bit Coin is destined to fail…
That’s a really efficient way to lose credibility in a conversation about money. Now if only you could work in the Wiemar Republic and Zimbabwe in there somehow it would be complete.
I didn’t say it’s not a currency, I said it’s a laughably awful one and its days are numbered.
Americans can’t live without someone controlling them and telling them what they are allowed to do and not do . It’s unthinkable and scary for them!
Anyways, if anyone here wants to sell more of these absolutely garbage worthless wannabe currency, send me a PM. I’d like to add to my collection. Same goes for LTC. Can meetup and cash in Taipei. Cheers!
Well this has nothing to do with Americans. Bitcoin lacks the basic fundamentals required to provide a stable environment for investment past a certain “roll the dice on a gamble” type buy in. I laid out 6 or 7 things that have to be present in order for a currency to take hold and be viable. Unfortunately Bitcoin and the rules governing it are actually written in stone so to speak, so it won’t be able to adapt to give people what they need. Nobody is going to invest a serious amount in something that is so tenuous. Bitcoin is no different than buying a hot biotech stock. If you happen to buy in low enough, sell out when it’s skyrocketing you can make some money and there will be many winners in this. Several Bitcoin millionaires are going to be created, there’s no doubt about that. The sad part is, there is always going to be far more losers in speculative frenzies like this one.
I just hope nobody on Forumosa is one of the unlucky losers in this eventual train wreck.
The Chinese central bank said no and therefore the gas went out of it. It’s still my prohibited as A means of exchange in China though.
It’s just going to keep yo-yoing.
Yeah, this isn’t one giant pump and dump All this talk of a “currency” is disturbing. It doesn’t have one quality characteristic of a currency. More like a pricing cartel if you ask me…
Digital currencies are here to slay, despite the deficiencies of early releases like BItCoin, and there’s little politicians and money barons can do to stop the onslaught on their bastions of old money other than spread fear and erect futile legal and regulatory barriers.
While the excess volatility and opacity of methodology in a math vhallenged world of BitCoin are showstoppers, they’re not inherently insoluable problems and once they’re overcome in later releases currencies will become as democratized as information has become in the Internet age. No longer then will currencies be at the mercy of insiders with the power of the purse, just as information is no longer at the mercy of those with the power of the press.
There’s no question the idea and technology behind them are very intriguing and show a lot of promise. I’ll judge them on a per case basis. I think Bitcoin is doomed to fail for the many reasons I have stated, but I would imagine something comes along fairly soon that actually gets it mostly right. There’s currently several other players in the space and the number will be growing rapidly in the months / years to come. I actually support the underlying principles behind them, I just think Bitcoin itself is deficient in so many ways it’s destined to collapse under it’s own inadequacies.
If you’re interested and can sit through 2 3/4 hours of jibber jabber, Joe Rogan talks to a guy who has a hand in the online money scene. Youtube-Joe Rogan Experience #446 Andreas Antonopoulos.
. It’s unthinkable and scary for them!
All this talk of a “currency” is disturbing. It doesn’t have one quality characteristic of a currency. More like a pricing cartel if you ask me…