[quote]It is very simple…boycott the P&W. Get all of your friends to do the same.
Hey P&W…here’s a little something just for you. [/quote]
It was pointed out to me that if this was an extortion scheme, boycotting the Pig and Whistle may be playing into the hands of the alleged criminals.
[quote=“EOD”][quote]It is very simple…boycott the P&W. Get all of your friends to do the same.
Hey P&W…here’s a little something just for you. [/quote]
It was pointed out to me that if this was an extortion scheme, boycotting the Pig and Whistle may be playing into the hands of the alleged criminals.[/quote]
Yes, but who cares if this was an extortion scheme. Some foreigners got jumped there and the P&W did nothing (if that is in fact what really happened.).
Gotta keep things simple: Customers go to a place. Place did not take care of customers. Customers do not go back. Place dies.
I wanted to tell everyone out there how much I, and many of my friends, agree with the recents posts that have been added. It seems that there is a very strong “expat” community in the Hsinchu area and you all seem to really support the victims. The one post with a little advice on how the Pig and Whistle “should” have responded is right on the money! I think that it is also good how the public is forcing the Pig and Whistle to “fess up” to their lack of concern and responsibility throughout the whole fiasco. The best idea recently, that I have read, if a place is not willing to help their guest and allow a safe time to be had - forget them - take your money elsewhere! As far as the meeting at 4Q2 goes: I think it is a completely stupid idea and is sure to cause an all-out fight. P+W: have you even attempted to meet with the victims and settle this whole thing? There is such a thing as “damage control” and you could have done a much better job to smooth things over and lend your support from the beginning instead of passing blame and trying to save a few bucks!
Agreed.
If the bar management did nothing, then go elsewhere.
Before coming to Taiwan, I worked in pr for five years. While reading the posts by the p&w rep, I was reminded of how so many people working as corporate “spokepeople” confuse using multi-syllabic words with professionalism. As if the artificial, pompous tone weren’t offensive enough, the rep then focuses on defending the bar from every criticism raised by the people involved in the attack and those who weren’t.
Sure, you need to do damage control. You are worried about your company’s image and revenue. But, seriously, deal with the people who were hurt in your bar first. Don’t act superior and assure us all that you are ‘taking steps.’ Reps are the face of a company and your tone is their tone.
This is defensive, uppity, amateur night - bad pr at its worst.
Pig & Whistle Hsinchu r.i.p.
The fact is that many foreigners in management here, particularly such as the P&G, have little or no background or education in the field. Not all, of course, but you can see the utter lack of skill in handling this forum chat.
again, if not P&W in hsinchu, then where? TGIF?
again, why is a bar open at 430 AM?
anyways, here’s P&W contact info:
general manager: tim.clarke@themepub_com
tel 03 531 5099
fax 03 531 7399
email: pigtwn@ms.just-in.com.tw
as per the business card i picked up there a few months back.
P&W has a security guard on the second floor entrance. Bags are searched before anyone is allowed to enter. I feel that the P&W is making progress…better late than never!
Positive move, P&W! You’re getting a thumbs up from some of the guys here in Hsinchu.
I think that a mediator is needed in a case like this. It’ll help both sides resolve this issue.
wow, they are searching bags. do they have the gumption to stop someone with a baseball bat from entering?
are they still open at 430 AM?
yo what type of music do gangsters like
Why isn’t it?
Why isn’t it?[/quote]
exactly! This could go in the “Why I love Taiwan Thread”
Hey Sandman, been lying low…putting up a web site, and working my a$$ off (7 day weeks…one startup at the 1.5 year mark, and some IDJIT–errr…me…decides to start another one).
Off topic…, back to the thread. I’ve given this thread a lot of thought, especially since some little college pinhead took a swing at my wife when I wasn’t around yesterday. The little prick ran a red light and nicked her car. He swung, she kicked him squarely in the nuts. My mother was intentionally rearended a month ago, and they came at her (60+ years old) with a bat. I’ve been attacked twice in the last year. I’ve witnessed two gangland hits (one with a Glock, so it was serious…the other they basically carved the guy up and let him bleed to death).
I was attacked back in '92 also, and the guy was in far worse shape than I was, but I’m getting older.
Everyone is afraid of what the gangsters will do if you retaliate or press charges? Don’t worry about it…I’m becoming more and more convinced that pacifism does NOT work in Taiwan. I MAY even start to carry a weapon of some kind at night (realizing that if you carry it, and you take it out, you have no option but to use it or have it used against you). Pressing charges is useless because basically, I have a feeling that assault is either not against the law or that the law is not enforced. Fine. Then I, personally, will keep that in mind and do whatever I have to to stop the particular attacker and the attacks in general. If the gangsters have a problem with the peons ending up in the hospital, tell the peons not to attack foreigners (that’s the way it USED to be) unless the foreigners attack first (seems like that was what was percieved to have happened at the pig and whistle).
Ahh, back to more of the thread…I may rant more, this REALLY pisses me off.
[quote=“pigandwhistle”]whilst we appreciate that a forum such as this is designed to foster healthy and sometimes controversial debates on matters near and dear to us on the island of Taiwan, it also unfortunately allows abuse by various individuals or groups with some or other axe to grind.
we’ve noted with amazement over the past few weeks the postings by various faceless and nameless contributors who, with gay abandon i might add, feel it’s their inalienable right to slander, incriminate, make unsubstantiated claims, quote hearsay and shaggy dog stories with absolute conviction and generally follow strange agenda’s and crusades that, at best, can be referred to as mischevious and misleading.
the pig & whistle, feels that it would be a lot healthier to host a meeting to address any outstanding issues regarding the 22nd/23rd may incident that remain unresolved and finalise this matter once and for all. anyone who wishes either to be heard, or to hear, may attend.
details as follows:
Venue: 4Q2 Bar, Hsinchu (Xinzhu) (Nigel&Nunu’s place)
Time & Date: 7.00pm-8.00pm, Tuesday 15th June 2004.
we are confidant that this meeting will assist us in finding a way to resolve all the issues and therefore, this posting is hopefully our last on this matter.[/quote]
My name is Alton Christoher Earle. My face can be viewed on a number of posters around the island and online in many places.
I know the pubs, you HAVE no bouncers there, you HAVE no security. If you DID, this wouldn’t have happened.
Again, the P&W caters to an awful lot of gangsters, that is a FACT. Other pubs shun their business. The fact that your security was so BAD that you ALLOWED a bat in there shows a lot.
Now, I am a professional photographer (and just noticed that my old face is still posting as an avatar here). I shoot live bands and clubs (will eventually get 'em up on my site for sale). I WAS planning on contacting the P&W, my stuff gets you guys great publicity. For now, though, I will focus entirely on The Flying Pig, even though they have no live bands. There is always Taicung and Chungli for that.
Now, on the offchance that the P&W guys stop back, here is a public upbraiding:
What the hell?!?!? You wait until AFTER an incident to implement security, that's like waiting to install a fire suppression system until after a fire has burned down your house. ANYONE who is in the pub business should think about security, especially if you target and welcome gangster money (and you do, you wouldn't want to lose out on any money...well, now you will lose out on mine and a lot of other foreigners who will wait a long time to see if this incident is repeated). You got your quick profit from the gangsters, forgetting that I will wait a long time before I even go back to the restaurant, let alone the pub. I suspect others will too. Do your gangster pub customers frequent your rather expensive (by Taiwan standards) restaurant? A little business advice: You can't have ALL types of customers. You need to figure out what your business model is and what your business stragegy is. Figure out what kind of customer you want, the go get 'em. If it is gangsters, congratulations. You've lost most foreign business and will go the way of The Pig Pen (and how I think Moon will go, if it is even still open). If you were to take the path of The Flying Pig and play the tunes that the little criminals are fond of, they will go away. Of course, you would need a DJ who was observant and knew the difference (yours may well be, I honestly don't know).The fact is that people will forget this incident – assuming they ever knew of it. More foreigners will come to Taiwan unaware of a fight ever having occured. Many people don’t even know about Forumosa ( 
). A little time and everything will be back to normal.
That is an idea…get the word out that if you are in a fight with a local, mess them up so badly that Taiwanese connect fighting foreigners with, “Don’t even try.” Maybe it would be in our best interests to get a reputation of being utterly ruthless.
P&W = trying to save their own ass from the mess on their grounds that they didn’t do a thing to stop. It’s all about saving face, guys and gals! Can’t let people think the establishment is a seedy hangout for lowlife gangsters. 
I got an idea. Let’s brew up some posters detailing the incident, and any possible pictures we can get a hold of, and put them up all over the northern part of the island. The media doesn’t want to do the dirty work, so we should. Get the word out there. P&W is somewhere you don’t want to be. Don’t give them your business. 
The fact is that people will forget this incident – assuming they ever knew of it. More foreigners will come to Taiwan unaware of a fight ever having occured. Many people don’t even know about Forumosa ( ). A little time and everything will be back to normal.
That is an idea…get the word out that if you are in a fight with a local, mess them up so badly that Taiwanese connect fighting foreigners with, “Don’t even try.” Maybe it would be in our best interests to get a reputation of being utterly ruthless.[/quote]
You are probably right on the attention span (what were we talking about anyway…lets go get nachos at the pig and whistle 
).
Unfortunately, on your second point…I R living proof that it works (err, worked). Years n years ago…1991 I think, some pinhed in a Hsinchu pub (Nepal) decided to pick a fight. I was tired and not in the mood…I got on my bike, started it, and started to leave. He grabbed onto my jacket, I just kept going…after a block or so, I used a couple of cars to scrape him off at around 50K/h. No one gave me any trouble after that. Unfortunately, it has been a while, and memories are short (there was another guy who was 5cm taller than me and double my weight who put a couple of babyganstas in the hospital…no one screwed with him either).
Two attacks on me this year (unprovoked entirely), one on my wife (unprovoked) and one on my moter (well…uhhh…sorta provoked? but that doesn’t excuse taking a baseball bat after a 60+ year old woman) and I’m 104.7% out of patience. As a result, I’m pretty much avoiding cities and pubs 
. I figure that it is insect season anyway, I’ll shoot (PICTURES) of insects instead of people until my out of patience level drops back below 50%.
Combine that with the gun based murder I witnessed first hand in Chungli late last year, and the remains of a knifing just around the corner. Taiwan ain’t as safe as it once was, and the old “Don’t Screw With The Foreigner” rules don’t apply. Mind you, if some idjit ferigner is going around antagonizing people (as one guy in Hsinchu was doing in the early 90s), he gets what he deserves (and in this guys case, it was a cold-cocking with a brick upside the head). People like that get no sympathy or support from me. However, the cases of foreigners being randomly attacked outside of a club simply for being foreigners seems to be rising. The Pig and whistle case sounds an awful lot like a problem between two people (one foreigner and one Chinese). The fact that half a dozen babygangstas started attacking random foreigners on the dance floor (thereby making it a racially motivated attack) is what I find unpalatable.
Of course, since leaving the music industry and being semi-reclusive, the only death and dismemberment I’ve seen first hand are the two pedestrian fatalities in front of my scool at a dozen or so scooters that got themselves launched by cars because they ignored the red light.
You know, some days I wonder WHAT on earth posessed me to come back? It passes after a day or two, but some days 
. Then I watch my kid with his cousins and I remember why I came back .
[quote=“SteveZeAuthor”]P&W = trying to save their own ass from the mess on their grounds that they didn’t do a thing to stop. It’s all about saving face, guys and gals! Can’t let people think the establishment is a seedy hangout for lowlife gangsters.
I got an idea. Let’s brew up some posters detailing the incident, and any possible pictures we can get a hold of, and put them up all over the northern part of the island. The media doesn’t want to do the dirty work, so we should. Get the word out there. P&W is somewhere you don’t want to be. Don’t give them your business. [/quote]
I’m game, I’ve got PageMaker and a copier and lotsa A3 paper. The fact that P&W is having its face-saving frenzy off site really shows their true colors. If they were serious, they’d have it on site where the problem occurred. I don’t even know where this little hole in the wall is that they mentioned.
Amazing how they do nothing until the problem occurs, then try and play catch up on the devestating PR. It would have been much simpler and much cheaper to implement adequate security in the first place (how the HELL did that BAT get in there without anyone saying anyhting? The staff HAD to have seen it and did nothing…of course, I have YET to see a real bouncer in Taiwan. When fights break out, the “bouncers” are the first ones heading for the exits.
And I just realized that coming in here and accusing us of hiding on the internet (the “nameless faceless” comment) is BRILLIANT public relations. Hell, why don’t they just insult customers as they walk through the door?
Bad idea, unless you want to be sued for defamation and libel.
Let’s put it another way, people expect to go to a pub and be safe because 99.99 percent of the time, you ARE. To say that the P&G was remiss in not having security is absurd. What other bar has security? I don’t mean some place like Vibe (although whether they do or not I don’t know) which is a dance club. I mean a place like P&G. I can’t think of any place that has security because it isn’t needed.
Sure, fights happen, but rarely. In over 18 years here I can’t recall seeing one (although I have heard of several).
[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]
Let’s put it another way, people expect to go to a pub and be safe because 99.99 percent of the time, you ARE. To say that the P&G was remiss in not having security is absurd. What other bar has security? I don’t mean some place like Vibe (although whether they do or not I don’t know) which is a dance club. I mean a place like P&G. I can’t think of any place that has security because it isn’t needed.
Sure, fights happen, but rarely. In over 18 years here I can’t recall seeing one (although I have heard of several).[/quote]
Good point. Most of the time things are safe. The pub scene doesn’t bother me…
…what bothers me is that no Taiwanese knows are cares about events like this.
Hsinchu Pig & Whistle Announcement…
If there are any punters out there who have something to say about the recent incident when a handful of our patrons were injured in an early morning bar brawl, please feel free to attend an open meeting to air your views and help us make the upstairs night club a safer place. Tim Clarke, co-owner of the Pig & Whistle Group will be present to answer any questions or address any concern anyone may have.
Details as follows:
Venue: 4Q2 Bar, Hsinchu. (Nigel & Nunu’s place)
Time & Date: 7.00-8.00pm Tuesday evening 15th June (TOMORROW EVENING)
LIVE TV ANNOUNCEMENT…
Please note that we will be showing ALL the Euro 2004 soccer games LIVE subject to the following:
*If there’s no-one watching, or planning to watch the game downstairs, we’ll only broadcast the game upstairs in the nightclub for anyone who may arrive later.
*If there’s a group of supporters who’ve called us in advance to tell us they want to watch any of the games, we will keep downstairs open. Also, if there are supporters on the ground floor at regular closing time, who are intending to stay and watch the game, our downstairs will remain fully staffed.
If the above has confused the hell out of any of you, please call us on (03)531-5099 and get the lowdown.