I’ve never been out west myself, so my vote goes to either the 401/QEW or the 427/Gardener Expressway/DVP/404(basketweave) in Toronto/Southern Ontario. I’ve witnessed some HUGE wrecks there myself. Even been part of a few. 
Multi-car pile-ups are almost a guarenty in the winter time.
Taiwanese are just better drivers than North Americans. I think the death rate would be much lower in Taiwan if not so many people drove scooters and motorcycles and it owuld be much worse in Canada if more people drove scooters.
To Canada’s credit they do have a lot of snow and ice and the random moose in the middle of the road, but then there are a lot more random things in the roads in Taiwan.
Get grip and come to realize Taiwan are more alert drivers because they have to be. They do not follow the laws, but that just makes people more alert still. The cops don’t do their jobs, so you have to be more alert. If anyone ever hit you and it was their fault, if you sued them in Taiwan you couldn’t get much money, another reason for defensive driving skills. The Taiwanese are gambling risk takers that do stupid things, but most of the time they pull it off. They are in my own opinion EXCELLENT drivers. Not all of them of course, but most of them are better than North American drivers and I would venture Aussie drivers as well. They have to be and if you grew up in Taiwan you would be a good driver too, however, you also would not be a safe or rule abiding driver. Did I mention they are pigs behind the wheel and stubborn? That doesn’t take away from the fact they are better drivers than us. Just live with it. If it makes you feel better you can think that you probably have a bigger penis than they have. Hahaha…
[quote=“Hobart”]Taiwanese are just better drivers than North Americans.
[/quote]
Not saying that you’re wrong, but I definetly disagree.
The Taiwanese method of driving is to look forward at all times and never vear from that line of sight. Just ask a local or watch them drive/ride, and you’ll notice that few(if any) ever check their blind spots.
My girlfriend absolutely refused to replace her mirrors as she never used them. After I replaced them with larger ones, she actualy agreed that they make riding safer.
My friend’s girlfriend got mad at him for checking his blind spots!! :loco:
[quote=“Hobart”]
To Canada’s credit they do have a lot of snow and ice and the random moose in the middle of the road, but then there are a lot more random things in the roads in Taiwan.
Get grip and come to realize Taiwan are more alert drivers because they have to be. They do not follow the laws, but that just makes people more alert still.[/quote]
Don’t think that the lack of death on the roads is due to driver alertness, but rather due to lower speed limits and most people only drive at half of that.
People regularly make left turns from the right lane signaling right, and sometimes without any at all, and vis-versa.(Did I spell that right? )
People drive at speeds as low as 40km on the highways and sometimes in the opposite direction.
Speed kills, but speed differential, exponentially more.
Another point is that Taiwanese are borderline narcoleptics. My girlfriend and most of the Taiwanese poeple that I know fall asleep at the drop of a dime. Just the other week some guy fell asleep at the wheel and barreled through an intersection(red light) and dozens of scooter riders waiting for the light to turn. None of which had the common sense to get out of the way I might ad. Back home we call this, “Racoonitis.” 
The police don’t hand out tickets or fine women who push their strolers on the raod as opposed the sidewalks only several feet away.
People wait for the bus in the middle of the streets, and some seem to enjoy walking along medians.
Sorry Hobart, but how would that deter a careless driver, cabby, bus or truck driver?
You’re commending fluke? 
As for the penis thing, I’d rather not talk about it!!! 
Most local drivers can’t even drive in a straight line. How is that superior driving? One time I had an adult student driving myself and two other students to somewhere. I made him stop the car and let me drive, even though at the time I didn’t have a license. Because I was going to throw-up due to his constant gas-brake-gas-brake-gas-brake-gas-brake…etc…while driving on the highway with no traffic. Explain how this is better driving? I’ve even been in busses that do this. The person has no idea he can put his gas pedal in a fixed position to maintain a specific speed. So instead he just alternates between accelerating past 80 (for example) then braking back down to 80…then accelerating past…add infinitum.
I see what you are tying to say…and I’d agree that they are more alert. But more alert alone doesn’t translate into a superior driver. If I let a 12 year old girl drive a car she’d be alert as hell (with adrenaline and whatnot)!!! But that doesn’t make her a good driver.
[quote][quote=“Nam”][quote=“Hobart”]Taiwanese are just better drivers than North Americans.
[/quote]
Not saying that you’re wrong, but I definetly disagree.
The Taiwanese method of driving is to look forward at all times and never vear from that line of sight. Just ask a local or watch them drive/ride, and you’ll notice that few(if any) ever check their blind spots.
My girlfriend absolutely refused to replace her mirrors as she never used them. After I replaced them with larger ones, she actualy agreed that they make riding safer.
My friend’s girlfriend got mad at him for checking his blind spots!! :loco: [/quote]
You are talking about safe driving. I agree they are NOT safe drivers. They drive so unsafe it is STUPID! However, think for a moment how they can actually drive so well without even checking their review mirrors. Think of all of those people that understand this and compensate for it. It amazes me. By the way, they do check their mirrors from time to time, however, it is unwritten rule that as long as the front of your car is in front of their car, you can cut them off, because if they hit the side of your car, then they should have seen you because you were in front of them. Whatever, I disagree, but it helps if you know how they think and why they do things.
[quote=“Hobart”]
To Canada’s credit they do have a lot of snow and ice and the random moose in the middle of the road, but then there are a lot more random things in the roads in Taiwan.
Get grip and come to realize Taiwan are more alert drivers because they have to be. They do not follow the laws, but that just makes people more alert still.[/quote]
Don’t think that the lack of death on the roads is due to driver alertness, but rather due to lower speed limits and most people only drive at half of that.
People regularly make left turns from the right lane signaling right, and sometimes without any at all, and vis-versa.(Did I spell that right? )
People drive at speeds as low as 40km on the highways and sometimes in the opposite direction.
Speed kills, but speed differential, exponentially more.
Another point is that Taiwanese are borderline narcoleptics. My girlfriend and most of the Taiwanese poeple that I know fall asleep at the drop of a dime. Just the other week some guy fell asleep at the wheel and barreled through an intersection(red light) and dozens of scooter riders waiting for the light to turn. None of which had the common sense to get out of the way I might ad. Back home we call this, “Racoonitis.”
The police don’t hand out tickets or fine women who push their strolers on the raod as opposed the sidewalks only several feet away.
People wait for the bus in the middle of the streets, and some seem to enjoy walking along medians.
Sorry Hobart, but how would that deter a careless driver, cabby, bus or truck driver?
You’re commending fluke?
As for the penis thing, I’d rather not talk about it!!! [/quote]
Again you are mostly talking about whether they are safer drivers. They are not safer drivers, nor do they follow the rules, but they can drive circles around most of the drivers in the USA. Do one thing out of the ordinary in the rule abiding USA and there will be an accident as no one pays attention because they don’t have to. Taiwanese are always paying attention and experts at defensive and offensive driving as well as cutting you off from every and any angle. They practise this all of the time.
Well, you ignored my post. I’m not talking about safety. Taiwan drivers use both feet on the gas and brake, they wander in and out of their lane, they alternate gas, brake, gas, brake…just to hold a constant speed. These are not traits of a good driver. And the only time they drive circles around anyone…is when they try driving on ice, and then it’s not intentional.
Most local drivers can’t even drive in a straight line. How is that superior driving? One time I had an adult student driving myself and two other students to somewhere. I made him stop the car and let me drive, even though at the time I didn’t have a license. Because I was going to throw-up due to his constant gas-brake-gas-brake-gas-brake-gas-brake…etc…while driving on the highway with no traffic. Explain how this is better driving? I’ve even been in busses that do this. The person has no idea he can put his gas pedal in a fixed position to maintain a specific speed. So instead he just alternates between accelerating past 80 (for example) then braking back down to 80…then accelerating past…add infinitum.
I see what you are tying to say…and I’d agree that they are more alert. But more alert alone doesn’t translate into a superior driver. If I let a 12 year old girl drive a car she’d be alert as hell (with adrenaline and whatnot)!!! But that doesn’t make her a good driver.[/quote]
You must have been driving with my old boss. His driving made me sick. I thought I’d get whiplash with the constant brake - gas - brake - gas crap going on.
Another thing is those that sit on the brake at the traffic lights with their car still in DRIVE. It’s like telling the car stop and go at the same time. And for the life of me, I can’t get anyone to understand the reasoning, wait… some males can 
[quote=“plasmatron”]I think it’s effectively impossible to compare accident rates in Taiwan to any other country, for the reasons listed in the “police in Taiwan” thread and also what Hexuan wrote below…
That’s the truth dude!..comparing apples and oranges!
[quote=“Hobart”][quote][quote=“Nam”][quote=“Hobart”]Taiwanese are just better drivers than North Americans.
[/quote]Again you are mostly talking about whether they are safer drivers. They are not safer drivers, nor do they follow the rules, but they can drive circles around most of the drivers in the USA. Do one thing out of the ordinary in the rule abiding USA and there will be an accident as no one pays attention because they don’t have to. Taiwanese are always paying attention and experts at defensive and offensive driving as well as cutting you off from every and any angle. They practise this all of the time.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
I agree on the point of paying attention. I am in Australia at the moment and the lack of stimulating driving is causing me some concern as my concentration lapses.
But driving circles around Western drivers. NO WAY.
These guys and girls have only been driving for one generation. They have no idea of where the limits are. Watch wet weather driving on winding mountain roads. I have tried to keep up with a few out of morbid interest so I could witness the accident but got scared.
They can outpark a western driver, just do not ask them to use the reverse gear or mirrors as anything behind or to do with going backward is of little interest.
(Sorry to my beautiful little wifey if you ever read this, you drive the best )
in the States there is a stereotype about Asians being bad drivers. Riding around with my girlfriend’s family here is Taiwan has not reinforced this (her parents and siblings all drive decently) except when it comes to backing up. They suck at it, all of them, really bad. I just bite my tounge of course, but i feel like saying, “could I get behind the wheel, just to back this baby up…” it’s nice to have this opportunity to release, Thank You.
[quote=“Bassman”]
Another thing is those that sit on the brake at the traffic lights with their car still in DRIVE.[/quote]pssst. That’s what you’re supposed to do in an automatic. Shifting into park and then back into drive at every single stoplight is bad for the transmission. As long as you’re not also pushing the gas pedal while standing on the brake, it doesn’t do any harm at all. The torque convertor is running at way below it’s stall speed and there isn’t any load on it.
I’d never driven an automatic until coming here, so I had to have all this explained to me too… 
Sitting out of gear is also dangerous because your vehicle is not ready to take evasive action.
This would of course asume the use of rear view mirrors, a gravel truck bearing down fast and room to get out of the way.
A Chinese friend pointed to a gravel truck and told me everybody hates them because the brakes fail and they kill people.
Re in and out of gear. I am pretty damn sure they are not tested to withstand being put in and out of gear all the time.
That is just my opinion from the first time I was in Asia and saw an auto being put through the in and out of gear thing, unless of course the Japanese do it. I have no idea if the Japanese perform the same antics with all the controls. I often think my Chinese Dad would be happy with a hole in the floor like Fred Flinstone so he can do extra stuff.
I’ll check with my buddy who is an automotive guru working for Ford in Asia on the gear stick longevity thing when boredom sets in.
Re the Taiwanese driving cirlces around … and having good reactions.
I have lived in my present house for about 9 months. It is in the countryside. In that nine months I have seen the aftermath of 5 accidents within 1km of my house.
I lived in one house in fairly central Birmingham UK for over 20 years and in that time saw 3 accidents within a similar radius. IMOHU Taiwanese drivers are shit. Also most of them wouldn’t know what the fuck to do with a clutch.
Re automatics. No idea if it is bad for the car but I tend to flick it in and out of neutral if I am at the lights to stop myself creeping. No need to use park.
[quote=“Ironman”]Sitting out of gear is also dangerous because your vehicle is not ready to take evasive action.[/quote]In a manual you sit around in neutral to be nice to the clutch throwout bearing. In an automatic all the shifting back and forth just creates extra wear and tear on the clutch packs which shortens thier life. All autos with torque converters (as opposed to CVT transmissions) will creep, it’s just a question of how much. Most modern cars will idle in the range of 500rpm or so which reduces creep.
I spend a bit of time on car forums and there is a huge amount of bitching there about sloppy driving: Driver inattention (yakking on cellphones or watching DVDs, window-shopping while driving etc.) is a big complaint everywhere, the US, Canada, UK… So is bad parking skill, aggressive passing, tailgating, changing lanes without looking or signalling… It’s all the same basic stuff. A sloppy driver is a sloppy driver and they’re everywhere that respect for others is not a strong national trait. Go to Thailand if you want to see fast, but courteous road users. Japanese drivers are so polite it’s embarassing.
Here in Taiwan you see a lot of drivers who are just plain sloppy. They just don’t know what day it is. OTOH we have a lot who have good car control skills, can pass you with a millimeter to spare 99 tries out a 100. This is a driver with good skills and a bad attitude. Piss-poor planning and excellent execution. I’ve got the feeling that the OP was talking about this class of road user.
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“Ironman”]Sitting out of gear is also dangerous because your vehicle is not ready to take evasive action.[/quote]In a manual you sit around in neutral to be nice to the clutch throwout bearing. In an automatic all the shifting back and forth just creates extra wear and tear on the clutch packs which shortens thier life. All autos with torque converters (as opposed to CVT transmissions) will creep, it’s just a question of how much. Most modern cars will idle in the range of 500rpm or so which reduces creep.
[/quote]
I am giving in on this discussion. I must admit to flicking a manual out of gear at traffic lights. I had just never seen anybody flick an auto out before coming here.
However, an emergency stop on a freeway still requires good distance to the car in front in gear and ready with mirror checking until a good number of cars have pulled up behind or piled up behind.
[quote=“Ironman”]
I am giving in on this discussion. I must admit to flicking a manual out of gear at traffic lights. I had just never seen anybody flick an auto out before coming here.
[/quote]In a manual I’ll go to neutral at a red light, once the guy coming up behind me has stopped moving. I also saw this N shifting at lights for the first time in Taiwan.
[quote=“Ironman”]
However, an emergency stop on a freeway still requires good distance to the car in front in gear and ready with mirror checking until a good number of cars have pulled up behind or piled up behind.[/quote]Yes, it has to be a really serious Chinese New Year type jam before I’d go to neutral on the freeway.
In Australia and USA where I have done a fair amount of travelling I have never seen a car pulled up in the middle of the freeway by itself.
I have seen it twice here and been stunned by the stupidity of it each time.
First time: Freeway 1 between Taichung and Taipei. Boy racer in black Honda gets it wrong for once and clips another car. The clipped car locks his brakes in middle lane and stops.
Second time: I was a passenger with another Forumosan on Freeway 3 near Long Tan. A car was pulled up by itself in the middle land and nobody to be seen and no damage to the car.
Its obviously had a mechanical problem and the driver just slowly wound down to a stop in the middle of the freeway.
What are they thinking? :loco:
I
Thinking… Taiwanese drivers… does not compute.