Hey all,
Would appreciate any advice. Today a CLA official came to do an unannounced inspection at my school. I have an ARC but for another branch of the same school. I was in class and I saw someone (I thought it was a parent of a new student) take a picture of me near some students. When I came out of the class this person informed me he was from the CLA and he asked me for my work permit so I bolted out of the school without saying anything. So they have the picture and they know I work at another branch of the same school. The school talked to the official and came up with a semi plausible story. The CLA now wants me to come in for an interview to tell them what happened (and come in with my school’s owner). Should I co-operate and go to the interview? Go there with a lawyer? Or put it off as long as possible? My opinion is that I don’t have to say anything (I have the right to say nothing, don’t I?) and it’s their job to make any case against me-but maybe things don’t work that way here. What can the CLA do if I don’t co-operate? I suspect that if I do co-operate they will want my ARC and other info and pass that on to the FAP, along with their opinion that I was teaching illegally-which will ultimately lead to my deportation. Just to note, there was only that one CLA official who saw me and there were no FAP involved.
Anyone been in or heard of anyone in a similar situation?
Thanks.
The CLA isn’t a police interrogation. You don’t have the right to say nothing. I’d venture to guess if you said nothing during the interview, things would be far more likely to go against you than if you cooperated. I can’t say what will come of your interview. My feeling is a warning and a grilling about why you ran, but anything is possible. Write back to update.
Based on what I have heard, and speaking entirely on my own behalf, and not as a moderator on this site, this is what I think is likely to happen: Your boss will cooperate with them, and has no doubt already given them your name and passport number. Don’t expect any support from your boss, other than to pat you on the back and assure you everything is OK. Best case scenario, AFAIK, is that you get fined. Medium case, deported for a day. Worst case, deported for a year.
CAVEAT: This is only my opinion. I may be wrong and things may turn out differently. Your best course of action is to talk to a lawyer. Your lawyer, not your school’s.
I wouldn’t bother getting a lawyer involved. Good money after bad.
You’ll get what you get. I doubt it’ll be deportation, but it might.
I would figure out in a hurry that you were NOT teaching there. Probably just observing, right? Since it was another branch of the same school? Maybe some observation to hone your teaching skills, eh?
I don’t think its a good idea to counsel people to lie to the CLA. And not only because the CLA official who photographed the teacher likely already observed some of the class and the teaching.
I don’t think its a good idea to counsel people to lie to the CLA. And not only because the CLA official who photographed the teacher likely already observed some of the class and the teaching.[/quote]
Seconded. “I was just observing, yer honour! Honest!”
“Well well well! I haven’t heard THAT excuse before! Case dismissed!”
Other than that, the standard operating procedure is to be followed. Admit NOTHING. Don’t offer ANY information that is not specifically asked for. DENY, DENY, DENY. If necessary, demand the presence of an FAP officer. If they refuse (as they might well do as its not considered a criminal case) then go back to DENY DENY DENY. Admit NOTHING.
What was the semi plausible story if I may ask?
First, since you have an ARC for that school but at a different branch, I wouldn’t have bolted. (I wouldn’t have in any event. Running is never an answer unless crowbars and/or guns are involved) It may not even have been CLA. I know of one instance that a competitor snuck up the stairs to take pictures of teaching at a new branch of an established school. The teacher even did a cute V signal for the photographer. The teachers had not been processed for the new branch but held valid ARC’s at another branch owned by the same person. CLA just laughed at the complaint.
Even if it was CLA, you should have asked for ID and written it down. Immediately take the official to your employer and explain what is happening. Let them handle it. Most likely, under the facts as presented, you will be asked to accompany your employer to a meeting at their office where you would have been admonished and the boss possibly fined.
Also, (and I am not at all certain of this but I think others may know for sure) recently the rules have changed so that a school with mulitple branches owned by the same person(s) can now allow teachers with an ARC for that main school to teach at other branches of the same school. I also understand, with no evidence, that even before that, teachers with an ARC at the main branch could sub at satelite branches without consequence.
In any event, by bolting, you simply escalated what may not have been a problem at all.
You’re probably fcuked, but keep us posted.
Or you could play dumb and lay all the blame on your employer. Like, you were just following their orders and didn’t know it was illegal to do that. And you bolting out like flash? Well say it was an urgent call of nature! :roflmao:
Oh, goodness no! That would be lying! We can’t have that! :loco:
Please explain to me what the difference is between “DENY DENY DENY” and simply not admitting that you were teaching but were in from another branch to observe or something. I did not tell anyone to go make a voluntary statement. I just said, in your mind, think of plausible reasons why you were NOT teaching. Has this been done before? Sure. Has it worked? Yeah, sometimes. Would it be more effective than throwing yourself on the mercy of the court? I would be willing to bet that it would. At least giving a plausible alternative allows a bureaucrat to let all the parties involved out of the situation while saving face. If the school has good guanxi, that could happen. If it doesn’t, maybe it won’t. But the OP wouldn’t be any worse off than he would be otherwise, would he?
Brief update. A friend has a private with a lawyer who called the CLA to see what was going on. The upshot of all this is that if the CLA want to interview me, they will have to formally ask the lawyer. This goes back to my original question, am I under any obligation to talk to the CLA? If I don’t co-operate, what is the worst that could happen? They don’t approve any new ARC applications when my ARC expires next May? I’m not really too concerned if they don’t approve me next year as I planned to leave anyway- I just don’t want to leave now. (I’m waiting to hear back from my friend if the lawyer has time to talk to me about these same questions but I think he doesn’t want to get too involved-I don’t know the lawyer dude personally and don’t want to push things with him as he has already done things for me for free and this isn’t his area of practice.)
Will post again if the CLA proceeds with this. Thanks for your replies. Cheers.
If you refuse to talk to them then the worst that can happen is they deport you without hearing your side of the story, surely? I’m not sure that refusing to enter into a dialogue is sensible.
If I were you I would hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
[quote=“tomthorne”]If you refuse to talk to them then the worst that can happen is they deport you without hearing your side of the story, surely? I’m not sure that refusing to enter into a dialogue is sensible.
If I were you I would hope for the best but prepare for the worst.[/quote]
Its not a court hearing and there’s no 5th amendment. You need to talk to them. DENY DENY DENY. Its an administrative thing, not a legal thing. DENY DENY DENY. Admit NOTHING.
Find five waiguoren who look somewhat like you and invite them to have a lineup and pick out the one who matches the picture. 
I’ll bet they can’t do it.
:loco: :loco:
[quote=“poco loco”]Brief update. A friend has a private with a lawyer who called the CLA to see what was going on. The upshot of all this is that if the CLA want to interview me, they will have to formally ask the lawyer. This goes back to my original question, am I under any obligation to talk to the CLA? If I don’t co-operate, what is the worst that could happen? They don’t approve any new ARC applications when my ARC expires next May? I’m not really too concerned if they don’t approve me next year as I planned to leave anyway- I just don’t want to leave now. (I’m waiting to hear back from my friend if the lawyer has time to talk to me about these same questions but I think he doesn’t want to get too involved-I don’t know the lawyer dude personally and don’t want to push things with him as he has already done things for me for free and this isn’t his area of practice.)
Will post again if the CLA proceeds with this. Thanks for your replies. Cheers.[/quote]
They could just order you to be deported anyway. You do not have appeal rights as a foreigner. You having a lawyer has no bearing on the matter. They don’t need to ask your lawyer anything and as it seems its not his ara of practice don’t expect the lawyer to be of much help. You are probably worse off using the lawyer than talking to the CLA.
WTF
Go humble your pie. I was scared. I’m in a foreign country. I missed my mommy. F! Come on. You bolted and it was the wrong thing to do.
You are 100% correct. You do not need to talk to them.
They are 100% correct and can deport you without a hearing or a fare the well.
Me? Well, in hindsight and of course after you really fucked things up by running, I would go in with sincere apologies and promises to be a good little teacher in the future. It will never happen again because I now know that running s not the best answer. I was just sooooo scared. On and on and on and on.
In the long run? My guess is that you are headed home but give it a shot. You never know.
This thread scares the crap out of me as with many people here I am sure at one time or another, many of us has had no choice but to take on extra illegal work just to get by. There has to be a better way to handle these issues but unfortunately no one gives a shit about us here we are just novelty characters like mickey mouse. I feel for you… sorry this happened. The future here is bleak anyway and this may turn out to be a good thing for you in the long run. Stay positive. Running from your problems is never a good thing I’m sure you know it doesn’t feel right.
I have actually been caught in a school by a man from the CLA I wasn’t in the classroom and I had a short conversation with him and then left and nothing ever happened after that, that was about 3 years ago. But I think because you ran you have no choice now but to deny you were there to Teach. I think they will be looking for revenge. I would go with training story watching classes. And most importantly be apologetic. Let them know you dont feel comfortable even being in a different country and you made a bad decision. If you can please disclose an approximate location I may not show up for work Monday morning due to paranoia now.