Confused About Teaching Kindy ... Again

How would they know you’re teaching English? Doesn’t everyone say Saffas (or ex-Saffas) can’t speak English anyway? :smiley:

When I was looking for a school for my girl, I found a reputed Montessori kindy very near my place. Their fees were super crazy, and I spotted a few westerners there. And then the lady in charge took me downstairs to the basement, to show me a padded play area - it was huge and an enclosed dance class, with mirrors. There was a pole there covered with plastic vines, but it was in the corner of the room, so I thought it was kinky but then ignored it. All the while the lady was going on about the musical instruments and you know kid stuff, then she proudly walked up to the pole and said ‘foreign teacher’ and all that. I had images of the fat white guy upstairs teaching pole dancing and I knew I was mistaken so I apologised and asked again, and then…drum roll…she told me and I got it. The pole went through the roof (I didn’t notice earlier, didn’t look up) so the foreign teachers could slide down if there’s a raid, and one of the mirror panels was a door :loco: to the outdoors.

I got out of the door in 30 seconds flat (and it’s no mean feat with 2 kiddos under 4). Got the Husband’s Local colleague to call up the education department and report the darned school. Gave them the Husband’s work address, phone number, my name and address and phone number. They asked for a written report, did that, and nothing. Not one enquiry, nothing. The school is still thriving.

And that’s when I decided I’d rather put my daughter in a plain public school than a fancy pvt. kindergarten.

:laughing: That is so cool. I want to work there.

Cool! Although a little impractical. We had a secret elevator that opened right next to the property line. Once across the line we’d be “safe.” The greatest danger I faced from the police was one of them trying to show a five-year-old his gun on our field trip to the police station.

How do you know there wasn’t an inquiry of some sort, that the school managed to pass?

[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“pqkdzrwt”][quote=“Lili”]So wait.
Kindys are legal, but they are not allowed to hire Foreigners or give out ARCs/work permit. ^According to Toe Save

Oh. So that’s why they post adverts and such. Makes sense now. The forum posts made it sound like the actual existence of kindys was illegal.[/quote]

Don’t trust what people say on the internet unless there is some sort of reference to back them up, ESPECIALLY on forumosa. I have been given different information, and that is, it is illegal to teach kids below a certain age english. (I forget the exact age). Having a Marriage visa doesn’t make it ok. I believe not even local Taiwanese citizens are allowed to teach english to children. I don’t have the skill to dig up a piece of chinese legislation, however some sites confirm this,

ie transitionsabroad.com/listin … tion.shtml
ie last post in this thread: [Kindergarten laws - #73 by Satellite_TV
So you’re saying that even if you have a TARC (台灣地區居留證) or a Taiwanese ID Card, you still can’t teach at a Kindy? What if you have a TARC (台灣地區居留證) or a Taiwanese ID Card AND a degree in Early Childhood Development?[/quote]

My wife (who is Taiwanese) used to teach kindy and roughly once every 2-3 months her boss would tell all the English teachers (all Taiwanese citizens who’d grownup or were schooled in the west) to stay home while the government came to do an inspection. It’s the full time English that’s the problem - the govt thinks it will hinder a child’s Mandarin ability if they learn English too early. I think 2 hours a week is the allowable maximum legally.

There is a great story about the time Chomsky came to Taiwan and during the press conference, some foreign reporter asked him what he thought about the Government forbidding teaching kindergarden kids English. His reaction was golden: it did not compute. They explained it was “illegal”. He kept repeating: illegal? illegal? , and then they explained the Government thought it would be harmful to kids development. Also did not compute: harmful? harmful? wide eyed stare, scratch scratch on the head, what what what are you talking about expression…

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.[/quote]

Some people are just hardened non-criminals!

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.[/quote]

My post on this thread is more relavant to the OP than your attack.
I think teaching kindy for a living is illegal for a good reason and it’s not the same as jaywalking.
BigDuke you should stop insulting me. Your tone and attitude is awful.

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?
[/quote]

You are comparing speeding and jaywalking to choosing a career that is technically illegal, its hardly the same thing?

[quote=“touduke”]
I think teaching kindy for a living is illegal for a good reason [/quote]
Actually, it’s for a stupid reason.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to advise the OP about the legal implications of teaching kindergarten in the English language. After all, that’s what she’s asking about. None of us really know the details of the law, but I think we can sum up the discussion as follows:

  1. Kindergartens abound in Taiwan, and are not illegal per se.
  2. Teaching kindergarten using the English language as the medium of instruction is illegal.
  3. Demand for native English speaking kindergarten teachers is high. Consequently;
  4. Numerous kindergartens try to find ways around the law, including registering as buxibans, submitting false documents to get work visas for foreign teachers, providing escape routes for foreign teachers, etc., and;
  5. Numerous foreign teachers are willing to work at kindergartens illegally, and risk the consequences of arrest and capture.

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?

Either submit something that is relevant to the OP or shut up.[/quote]

My post on this thread is more relavant to the OP than your attack.
I think teaching kindy for a living is illegal for a good reason and it’s not the same as jaywalking.
BigDuke you should stop insulting me. Your tone and attitude is awful.[/quote]

they’re gonna duke it out :slight_smile:

and you have no qualms whatsoever doing something illegal as a living.[/quote]

Get a life. Ever exceeded the speed limit, not worn a safety belt, littered, jaywalked, stuck 5 KG’s of crack up your ass etc, etc?
[/quote]

You are comparing speeding and jaywalking to choosing a career that is technically illegal, its hardly the same thing?[/quote]

It’s illegal to teach children under the age of 6 or 7 in Taiwan. That’s how it is stipulated in the law to my knowledge. According to the ministry of education, children under the age of 7 should be just taken care of, play and what else, I don’t know.

Therefor, if you are a foreigner with an JFRV you can be there the same way any other Taiwanese person can be there and get paid for whatever the management is paying you for.
They just can’t hire you to teach English. However, you can be around and play the funny uncle, clean the floor, organize the shelves and tell stories.
You just can’t teach.

By the way, Germany followed this free child development strategy for many years now and has huge problems with the amount of education students achieve.
There are voices now, from high authorities, publicly complimenting China with its strict teaching drills in kindergartens. Germany did not well in the last the pisa study.

Imagine Germany would put up a law prohibiting Chinese, Turkish, Polish, Taiwanese, etc. Citizens to take jobs in kindergartens.

Last, you should not take care of a kindergarten group by yourself if you do not have a degree in childhood education and I think it makes no difference if you have a PHD.
From my experience, most kindergartens have a professional trained person present at all times so I do not see where someone holding an JFRV is doing anything against the law by being there for money.

[quote=“Hamletintaiwan”]
From my experience, most kindergartens have a professional trained person present at all times[/quote]
Maybe in Germany, mate. Certainly not here.

[quote=“jimipresley”][quote=“Hamletintaiwan”]
From my experience, most kindergartens have a professional trained person present at all times[/quote]
Maybe in Germany, mate. Certainly not here.[/quote]
The kindergartens I worked for did.

But you are right many kindergartens here hire young untrained high school graduates to do the job.

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“divea”]
I got out of the door in 30 seconds flat (and it’s no mean feat with 2 kiddos under 4). Got the Husband’s Local colleague to call up the education department and report the darned school. Gave them the Husband’s work address, phone number, my name and address and phone number. They asked for a written report, did that, and nothing. Not one enquiry, nothing. The school is still thriving.
[/quote]

How do you know there wasn’t an inquiry of some sort, that the school managed to pass?[/quote]
Well if there was, it was a sham. With foreign teachers in plain view, A huge famous school like that, the only montessori kindy in Neihu, and the pole, no call backs to us, it would’ve been a sham. Besides, I meant, no one called me to enquire about why I am complaining to the Education Department. Nothing. Anyways, my point in revealing the story to the OP was, that it is illegal but they have loop holes or a sliding pole!

The only stint I’ve ever had teaching kindy was the most rewarding teaching of my life. Fantastic fun. It’s just a shame that the rules in Taiwan are so daft and the money really isn’t all that good.

I’m not sure if that helps the discussion at all, but I felt the need to share.

[quote=“divea”][quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“divea”]
I got out of the door in 30 seconds flat (and it’s no mean feat with 2 kiddos under 4). Got the Husband’s Local colleague to call up the education department and report the darned school. Gave them the Husband’s work address, phone number, my name and address and phone number. They asked for a written report, did that, and nothing. Not one enquiry, nothing. The school is still thriving.
[/quote]

How do you know there wasn’t an inquiry of some sort, that the school managed to pass?[/quote]
Well if there was, it was a sham. With foreign teachers in plain view, A huge famous school like that, the only montessori kindy in Neihu, and the pole, no call backs to us, it would’ve been a sham. Besides, I meant, no one called me to enquire about why I am complaining to the Education Department. Nothing. Anyways, my point in revealing the story to the OP was, that it is illegal but they have loop holes or a sliding pole![/quote]

What exactly is illegal?
That they are foreigners?
That they are in plain view?
That they use a strange door to exit the place?

I don’t know if you speak any second language. If you do and you had to acquire this later on in life, you probably know that it is almost impossible to become as perfect as a native speaker.

Till the age of 8 month, infants are universal listeners. This window then closes and can’t be opened again. So do many other abilities for acquiring language skills.
It is scientifically proven that such young learners use the same region of the brain for their first and second language. This window closes at very young age also.

If a parent decides to make use of these abilities, they should have the options to do so. And it should not be a thing for the rich who can pay for an overseas nanny.

It’s the kindergartens that can pool the money and share one “nanny”.
Personally, I think the government should not have to decide this. What education the parents want their kids to receive is the parent’s business only. In the end, they are the once paying the bills.

Still, when a kindergarten advertises itself as a Montessori kindy, they should follow their concept for the biggest part of the day. I don’t see how using English could get in the way, though.

Sorry for adding this a little late.

This is from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education

[quote]Sensitive periods: Montessori also observed periods of special sensitivity to particular stimuli during this time which she called the “sensitive periods”. In Montessori education, the classroom environment responds to these periods by making appropriate materials and activities available while the periods are active in the young child. She identified the following periods and their durations:[12]

    * [color=#4000FF]acquisition of language—from birth to around six years old[/color]
    * order—from around one to three years old
    * sensory refinement—from birth to around four years old
    * interest in small objects—from around 18 months to three years old
    * social behavior—from around two and a half to four years old

[/quote]