Dating Filipinas

Life Dating & Relationships
141

[quote]Tommy, you really don’t know Malaysia lah !
You should also add a caveat to your statement, that you are talking about girls from poor families that specifically seek out marriage to foreigners in order to provide financial support to their families. An educated woman from a well-off family will, obviously, not be looking for this[/quote]

eh, I dunno. Philippine and Malay culture are very similar and have had similar historical impositions; and I disagree that those who are well-off will necessarily be better people than the poorer ones. In my experience, professional or moneyed people in the Philippines are the biggest crooks and scumbags you would ever wish to meet. The problem is that it is all but impossible in that country to make money by honest means. Anyone with a gated mansion, a dozen cars, etc etc is either up to something dirty, or had not-so-distant relatives (parents, say) who were. There are exceptions, of course. I’ve met a couple of very honest businessmen, but they’re well-connected to high-level landed/moneyed families. It may be a stereotype, but salt-of-the-earth types tend to be a bit more reliable. Unless they’re gamblers or drinkers, in which case all bets are off.

I haven’t met many Malaysians or Indonesians, but I know people who have lived and worked there and I get the impression the economy works in much the same way: graft, corruption, environmental rape, outright theft, and stepping on the heads of the poor to get ahead (sorry, momentarily possessed by the ghost of Marx there).

The problem I see with both cultures is they simply don’t understand money or capital, and can’t manage it properly. That applies to rich and poor alike. Also bear in mind that “rich” is relative: a degree-educated girl in Manila might be earning PHP30K a month, but she’ll be paying out at least 10K for an apartment, 5K as the price of living in a city (bills, apartment maintenance, travel, tips, etc), 10K for food, and whatever’s left to a dozen feckless relatives out in the provinces. You, even if you’re only earning NT$60K (PHP90K) in some bottom-tier English school, are a lot better off.

142

[quote=“finley”][quote]Tommy, you really don’t know Malaysia lah !
You should also add a caveat to your statement, that you are talking about girls from poor families that specifically seek out marriage to foreigners in order to provide financial support to their families. An educated woman from a well-off family will, obviously, not be looking for this[/quote]

eh, I dunno. Philippine and Malay culture are very similar and have had similar historical impositions; and I disagree that those who are well-off will necessarily be better people than the poorer ones. In my experience, professional or moneyed people in the Philippines are the biggest crooks and scumbags you would ever wish to meet. The problem is that it is impossible in that country to make money by honest means. Anyone with a gated mansion, a dozen cars, etc etc is either up to something dirty, or had not-so-distant relatives (parents, say) who were. It may be a stereotype, but salt-of-the-earth types tend to be a bit more reliable. Unless they’re gamblers or drinkers, in which case all bets are off.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, you said it, brother.
The old saw “If you have money, you must be a crook” isn’t an exaggeration or generalization in the PIs, man, it’s just plain fact. :thumbsup:

143

[quote=“finley”]

I haven’t met many Malaysians or Indonesians, but I know people who have lived and worked there and I get the impression the economy works in much the same way: graft, corruption, environmental rape, outright theft, and stepping on the heads of the poor to get ahead (sorry, momentarily possessed by the ghost of Marx there).
.[/quote]

Finley, this is rather about Malaysian women and their potential relationships with foreigners, not about how people there get rich. From the time I lived there and the friends I have there, I can tell you that the kind of marriage that Tommy is referring to is rare. I certainly never came across it. You have three distinct cultures there- to generalise very broadly:

Chinese: Hard working and entrepreneurial (they need to be because they do not get the favourable treatment from the state accorded to Malays). Those who have enough money send their children abroad (UK is a favourite) for education. Conservative. Will not encourage their daughter to marry a non-Chinese just to support them.

Malays: Conservative. Will not encourage their daughter to marry a non-Malay just to support them. If the marriage is inside Malaysia, the groom must convert to Islam first.

Indians. The oppressed, Poorer. Conservative. Will not encourage their daughter to marry a non-Indian just to support them.

Many a Malaysian would be left astounded to read people here comparing their country to the Philippines or Indonesia. The history and cultures are entirely different.

144

PG: you’re correct of course - Malaysia does have three completely different cultures living side-by-side. My comment was actually directed more at the Philippines: that is, I wasn’t suggesting Malaysia is as comprehensively dysfunctional the Philippines, merely that the two countries share some cultural and structural characteristics. For example, the Philippine economy also is largely held together by powerful ethnically-Chinese families, and both countries have been seriously damaged by their colonial legacy, although Malaysia has made a much better job of leaving it behind.

You obviously know more about Malaysia than I do, and your analysis sounds plausible.

I think it matters enormously how people get rich. For one thing, why would anyone want to hitch themselves to a family of crooks? More generally, money disagreements are a major cause of relationship problems. I still maintain that Malay culture (and certainly Filipino culture), in general, has a very different view of the nature of wealth, capital, and money compared to Europeans or Americans. They live very much in the present and will happily exchange wealth-generating capital for paper currency, which then instantly evaporates and leaves them with no means of support. Malaysia as a country has done the exact same thing on a nationwide scale: destroying most of its natural capital (including half of Borneo, which was acquired under highly dubious circumstances) and polluting with abandon. Corruption and nepotism is rampant. A person growing up in that environment will inevitably have their views of what it means to be “rich” or “poor” shaped by the actions of people around them, and that’s going to impact any relationship with a foreigner who may (or ought to) see things very differently.

As for conservatism: it is my impression that “conservative” views often come with a large dose of hypocrisy.

145

Sounds like dating opportunities would be very limited in Malaysia then.

146

There are plenty of dating opportunities there. Perhaps more so for an outsider who is not bound by the norms and restrictions of their culture. Another way of looking at it is that in Malaysia, you are more likely to form a relationship with a woman that values you for what you are and what you have in common with her, rather than what you have. There are many Chinese Malaysian women in particular who are well educated, intelligent and witty, and the added bonus for some is that they like scuba diving and outdoor activities !

Opposition from her family may well be the biggest stumbling block. That’s what I meant when I said “conservative” but perhaps I should have said traditional and intransigent.

147

Thats what i meant. Dating may be ok but if you plan to marry her, then it could be problematic.

148

I never really go the whole Filipinas thing of marrying a foreigner to get out a poverty. What happens if he leaves you? Then you are poor again. Well unless he brings you to the US and then he will be supporting you for a long time.

149

While providing the services, you get 3 square meals a day. If you are relatively young, you can always find another John.

150

While providing the services, you get 3 square meals a day. If you are relatively young, you can always find another John.[/quote]

I guess it beats being a domestic worker in Taiwan. Unless you marry a violent foreigner who beats you.

151

This is pretty much the point I was making earlier.

The Filipino thinks of wealth in terms of a stream of cash: either from a salaried job, or (more often than not) someone you can leech off such as an OFW family member or a “rich” foreign husband. If you get really lucky - by landing a post in some thoroughly rotten government department - you’re assured a stream of bribes or other rent-seeking opportunities. Licensed professionals have much the same attitude: study hard for a few years, get your license, then sit on your lazy ass for the next 40 years demanding outrageous fees from those who are forced to hire you by government rules or fuckups designed to drop make-work into their laps, while delivering substandard or non-existent service. Lawyers, “engineers”, and accountants are prime examples.

I have yet to meet a Filipino who understands the basic concept of wealth-building by accumulating and investing in productive assets - of whatever sort - to produce a legitimate means of support. Instead, they sell (or pawn) their assets to produce short-term cash, which they then exchange for liabilities (eg., cars or iPhones). In fairness, the main reason they don’t try to build an honest livelihood is that the government will rain down hellfire on your head if you have the audacity to do such a thing. Filipinas who have nothing else to sell end up selling the only thing they’ve got - or rather, the only thing they think they’ve got. It never occurs to them that their prime asset is between their ears, which will only improve with use and age, as opposed to … anyway, you get the idea.

152

If you a marry an old foreigner (and it’s very common in the Philippines to see a 20 year old girl with an OAP foreign husband) with even modest savings, what he leaves you in his will when he dies will, converted to pesos, be enough to build your family a very nice house and keep them comfortable for a generation or more.

153

While providing the services, you get 3 square meals a day. If you are relatively young, you can always find another John.[/quote]

I guess it beats being a domestic worker in Taiwan. Unless you marry a violent foreigner who beats you.[/quote]

Nice job guys. Let’s see how many condescending stereotypes we can trot out in a single thread. Most of the Filipinas (and Filipinos) I’ve met have been honest, hardworking people who marry for love, not ravenous gold diggers on the prowl for a meal ticket. I hope none of them are reading this thread…

154

Try going to the Philippines for any length of time. Yes, sure, there are a good number of perfectly normal people. Unfortunately, there are also more than enough mouthbreathers, crooks, psychopaths, and drunks to ruin it for everybody. The normal people have to adapt around that reality, and it skews their outlook on life.

Bear in mind the ones who leave are the ones who have had enough of the bullshit, and have the credentials/skills to get a work visa elsewhere.

155

Have you lived in PH before Finley?

156

I spend about half my time there.

157

If you view the people in such a negative light, why spend any time there at all?

158

While providing the services, you get 3 square meals a day. If you are relatively young, you can always find another John.[/quote]

Even if that was strictly the case, it has to be win / win for both parties in the equation. Whatever each party feels they need to get out of it. It has to be a win/win.

159

I would tend to agree, I stayed in resorts/ hotels over the Philippines for several months, diving and did come away with a very cynical view, there because foreigner-frequented resorts tend to attract people who are intent on fleecing/ scamming foreigners, from lady-boys and divemasters with a hard-luck story which normally leads to them asking you for cash, to bartenders who try to take advantage of their drunk customers by adding phantom drinks to the bill etc.etc. But just like touristy areas here in Barcelona attract pickpockets, the foreigner places in the Philippines attract the worst people that country has to offer. That’s where I would like to stop my generalisation and have met several genuine and decent Filipinos during my travels, particularly in Sabah.

On the note of marriages, when you have a foreigner pensioner married to a 20 year old Filipina, it’s unlikely that there is any deceit going on there. Any guy with half a brain from 40 upwards who finds himself married with a pretty girl less than half his age knows that it’s not love, it’s a marriage of convenience, convenience for both sides. He has a maid, companion, and sex doll (although when you see these couples together on their own, they look entirely bored- obviously nothing to say to each other), and she has an income stream and future financial security for herself and her family. When I was there, I used to call it mutual exploitation, because although both parties enter into the marriage willingly and benefit from it, they are actually unhappy because of it.

160

While providing the services, you get 3 square meals a day. If you are relatively young, you can always find another John.[/quote]

I guess it beats being a domestic worker in Taiwan. Unless you marry a violent foreigner who beats you.[/quote]

Nice job guys. Let’s see how many condescending stereotypes we can trot out in a single thread. Most of the Filipinas (and Filipinos) I’ve met have been honest, hardworking people who marry for love, not ravenous gold diggers on the prowl for a meal ticket. I hope none of them are reading this thread…[/quote]

And I don’t think anyone was talking about ordinary Filipinas. We were talking about ones who marry foreigners to get out of the Philippines.

However, most relationships have some financial consideration. Few people marry solely for love. Most relationships have some type of financial consideration. Not to mention that statistics in the United States show that few women marry men from a lower class. I am not so familiar with statistics for Europe.