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Why wouldn’t you do a demo? Can you provide two Manadrin speaking references, one professional, one personal? I have taught in the finest schools in the UK and a demo was mandatory. I would expect the same in the lowest of ranked schools because they should model themselves on the establishments following the highest levels of practise. I would be highly dubious of a school who didn’t want to satisfy themselves visually that I could teach. A paper C.V. can hide a multitude of sins.
Too often people arrive in Taiwan and forget everything except how to fuck, complain and drink alcohol. What is worse is when X years down the line the only things they remember are their own bullshit homegrown fallacies. (Aimed at NO ONE in particular.)
[quote=“TomHill”]Why wouldn’t you do a demo? Can you provide two Manadrin speaking references, one professional, one personal? I have taught in the finest schools in the UK and a demo was mandatory. I would expect the same in the lowest of ranked schools because they should model themselves on the establishments following the highest levels of practise. I would be highly dubious of a school who didn’t want to satisfy themselves visually that I could teach. A paper C.V. can hide a multitude of sins.
Too often people arrive in Taiwan and forget everything except how to fuck, complain and drink alcohol. What is worse is when X years down the line the only things they remember are their own bullshit homegrown fallacies. (Aimed at NO ONE in particular.)[/quote]
I think it is the length of the demo that is in question. 15-20, illegal, but standard, I have no problem doing these. 30 minutes. This is pushing it, but if the school/boss gives me good vibes, I would not freak out. 1 hour. No way. You are being used. And you aren’t going to see anything in a hour that you wouldn’t see in 30 minutes. Frankly, 5-10 minutes is all I need to see. I have seen a fair amount of demos from both foreign and local teachers, and it doesn’t take a lot of time to see how they are in the classroom.
No, and this is the only point on which any case rests.
TimmyJames how can you assess a teachers ability to warm up, teach to some aims, and then provide plenary, if all you want to see is how lively they are?
[quote=“Shuiping”]Interviewing teachers is for the most part like auditioning actors.[/quote]Garbage.
[quote]Everybody agrees a demo is required to interview a teacher[/quote]Who’s going to assess my demo, you? :roflmao:
[quote]The stated reason for the request is allow the TWese interviewer to check the candidate’s work (as if the interviewer would no good english from bad)[/quote]Indeed.
[quote=“Tom Hill”]I would be highly dubious of a school who didn’t want to satisfy themselves visually that I could teach.[/quote]You’re assuming the person assessing the demo is sufficiently qualified to know what good teaching is. Most ‘schools’ in Taiwan wouldn’t know good teaching if it bit them in the arse. As if calling your school Alphaville wasn’t enough of a red flag?
The credentials of someone wanting to run a school their way and on their terms?
I dunno. I sure wouldn’t consider hiring someone who did that.
“My good man, I’m MUCH better at this than you. Just hire me and pay me and don’t presume to know how to operate your business better than me. Trust me on this: I know what you’re looking for FAR better than you do.”
You could, of course, take it even further: “Interview? ME? Do you KNOW who you’re talking to?”
[quote=“shuiping”]
This trick is like the interviewers looking for a writer … and … they request several stories/articles/essays/exam-question. The stated reason for the request is allow the TWese interviewer to check the candidate’s work(as if the interviewer would no good english from bad). Later, lo and behold, you find your sample in the next edition of their magazine/catalogue/book, etc.
As important as it is for the school to assess the teacher, it is important to know whether the interviewer is honest.[/quote]
I had this the other day, i walked in and he sat me straight in a room and asked me to draft a full legal response (for an active case) for 3 hours!!! I outlined a rough draft, putting in one half answer and then skipping over the rest with a lame legal argument, was done after 90minutes and then i gave the guy the exam and I asked if he was ready for interview. He declined, said they “may” interview next week.
It’s a really tough position to be in because contractually I am not allowed to work for another company and you know if you dont do a good job, they wont hire you, but doing a good job is no guarantee either. So in the end I wasted an afternoon off work (unpaid) and 5 hours traveling, waiting, returning…
IMO, and more related to teaching as well, a short discussion can act to more intensively test a candidate since you can cover more than a class. The reaally good teachers can be found out in these questions.
What is the difference between effect and affect? [or another similarly confused pair in English] (looking for phonetic introduction (using phonetic script) then contrast meaning)
Have you taught a child with learning difficulties, such as, dyslexia, ADD, ADHD, and how did you
a. identify the problem?
b. structure classes around this?
c. manage any discipline problems that arose?
You are teaching a group of adults and they keep confusing the simple present with present perfect (or other grammar aim). What would you do if,
a. You’re in a conversatinn class?
b. You’re in a beginner’s class?
c. You’re in advanced/fluency class?
d. Your grammar focus is present continuous?
Those problems come up frequently in class, but not all in the same class, and by measuring the teachers reaction to these random problems an interviewer (IMO) can judge thir ‘real’ classroom response.
[quote=“sandman”]The credentials of someone wanting to run a school their way and on their terms?
I dunno. I sure wouldn’t consider hiring someone who did that.
“My good man, I’m MUCH better at this than you. Just hire me and pay me and don’t presume to know how to operate your business better than me. Trust me on this: I know what you’re looking for FAR better than you do.”
You could, of course, take it even further: “Interview? ME? Do you KNOW who you’re talking to?”[/quote]
The thing is that some of us are not fresh off the boat and neither are we desperate for a job. Pandering to laobans here sets a precedent, in my experience. The people I know who do the best are those who dictate their rules so they’re doing business with the laoban, not working for the laoban. They are who they are and they tell the laobans to take them or leave them. They’re also smart in that they hit up the small buxibans that don’t have lots of other foreigners (so they can’t be played off against each other as to who will be the bigger whore). They almost always get a call back and they have more work than they can handle.
Sure thing. I just don’t see how “Demo? You want me to do a DEMO??” is going to endear yourself to a potential employer. I’m not in the business, though, so I have no idea how it works. If I was an employer, though, and I got that kind of sass off somebody seeking employment, I’d simply look elsewhere. Who needs that kind of shit before they’ve even started working for you? Is this REALLY how the buxiban thing works? Its REALLY that different from other jobs?
I don’t have a problem with a demo per se. Before doing that though, I’d want to see how both the Taiwanese and foreign staff there teach. Then, I’d also want to ask them what sort of thing they’d want me to be doing. Then I would decide if I actually wanted to work there. I’d be extremely wary about any place that just handed me a book (or no book) and told me to teach on a particular topic (or didn’t) without any kind of context.
My point in all this is that if they were going to act like professionals and go through all that, then sure, I wouldn’t have a problem. That said, if they were professionals, they’d probably take you on your qualifications and references, and give you an interview, as others have mentioned. If they weren’t going to act as professionals, and they were going to act like a lot of cowboys, then why should I or anyone else act any differently? If they were going to engage me in a pointless pissing contest, then why should I do anything else? Again and again, the reason so many foreigners get screwed in their jobs is because they allow themselves to be screwed in their jobs. They act, from the moment they ever set foot in the door of the place, before they’re even employed, like they should be eternally grateful for each and every thing that happens to them. Why should a boss treat them as anything less than a foreign idiot for that? I’m not saying go in there and start being rude to the boss from the first meeting. I’m saying let the boss know that you’re serious and that he or she should act accordingly.
Anyway, besides what you would or wouldn’t do if you were running a buxiban, you’re not, and neither am I. I wouldn’t hire my friends who have more work than they can poke a stick at because I think what they are doing is pointless crap, I think both their English and their qualifications are second-rate, and I think they’re kind of sketchy in a way. Like I have said though, they are doing well here because they play the game for what it’s worth. They realise when it’s a dog and pony show, and treat it accordingly, but they’re under no illusions about it being a professional outfit and then either set forth their rules and tell the laoban to take them or leave them, or they lie through their teeth like the laoban.
To be honest, I’d be bloody hopeless at most demos because that’s not my personality and the style of teaching that succeeds in many demos is not my style of teaching to begin with. That said, I wouldn’t want to work at that kind of establishment.
[quote=“sandman”]“My good man, I’m MUCH better at this than you. Just hire me and pay me and don’t presume to know how to operate your business better than me. Trust me on this: I know what you’re looking for FAR better than you do.”
You could, of course, take it even further: “Interview? ME? Do you KNOW who you’re talking to?”[/quote]Do your research before it gets anywhere near that stage.
[quote=“Guy in Taiwan”]Again and again, the reason so many foreigners get screwed in their jobs is because they allow themselves to be screwed in their jobs.[/quote]Exactly. Have a bit of self respect.
I think TomHill is bang on the money. The great advantage of demos for teachers is it allows you to observe the school management. I have only ever done one teaching demo in my life. When I asked what level the kids were, where they were in the syllabus etc, the teaching assistant just smiled at me and told me to go and teach. Obviously I turned down that job when they offered me it.
Demos are illegal in Taiwan, but let’s face it you’re not going to get caught. I think the ‘but it’s illegal’ line is a bit rich from people who happily ride home pissed, unlicenced and uninsured on their scooters every night knowing that if a policeman stops them they just have to speak English to get waved on their way. Nobody in particular, but a hell of a lot of foreign teachers in Taiwan.
Demos are stupid. Honestly - I’ll charm the socks off you in the demo, if I need the job. I started teaching 12 years ago. I can bullshit you in a demo no less easily than I can bullshit you in an interview. You won’t get at my underlying attitudes and all the multitude of reasons you shouldn’t hire Buttercup by watching me do a lesson I had already delivered twenty times before you got to the stage of wondering whether the girls would be cute in Taiwan, let alone opened the JFRC school …
Plus we know that no matter how stupid you view the job or the mangement to be, you would never let a student have anything other than 100% of your effort.
