Do I have military conscription?

Legal Military Conscription
1

I am an American born Taiwanese and I have been in Taiwan on an ARC for 4 years now. Every year I’ve been wondering about my visa status, from changing schools and such. Well, it’s the time of the year again and a recent employer suggests that I should get a Taiwanese ID.

I thought about it and called few places, and they said if I do so I would go to the military immediately since I technically overstayed as an Oversea Taiwanese. Also I came to Taiwan for a few years when I was in elementary to study Chinese, and my mom got me a hukou. The Officials said that since I had it when I was young, I would have to go to the military right away and I might get notification anytime. The employer said the hukou expires after certain years and I would be fine, since I haven’t been back to Taiwan except for a 1-week vacation from 11 till 27 years old.

I am now really confused and scared that they might just not let me leave the country. I have made Taiwan my home but yet I feel so distant at the same time. It’s not that I don’t want to do the military, but it just doesn’t make sense to me. Moreover, I have rent to cover, so if I do military, how am I suppose to pay the rent with the tiny amount they give and where I am going to put my personal belongings?

A friend asked me to come to Taiwan to do music 4 years ago, and I thought it was a good idea to change things up and see different things. I thought I could bring something new to the table and help the Taiwanese music industry. I came as an American not knowing how long I would stay and how Taiwan really is. I came thinking I can make a change, and make a difference by offering my passion and expertise. As time passed I have made some progress on music, although still not enough, and got used to the friends and living here. But now it seems that it might just get taken away any moment.

I know for the non Oversea Taiwanese, having an immediate residency/citizenship because of Taiwanese parents sounds great. But to me the disadvantages outweighs the benefits for Taiwanese American Male. I don’t get the culture fully but yet expected to, I can’t apply for a proper “APRC” because my parents are Taiwanese, I face discrimination when looking for teaching jobs, they expect me to understand “professional” meetings when I attend, and the list goes on.

At this point I have no idea and not even sure what to do. Do I have military conscription? Should I just go back home?

It seems that Taiwan has so much potential to be a great place, but the traditions and the way things run prevents itself from going any further.

2

In short, yes, technically you do have to serve in the army, and no, if you play it smart you can loop around the system.

If you currently have no hukou, then you don’t have to serve. So I assume you are trying to set up hukou (requirement for getting ID).

Since you’ve spend over 4 years living outside of Taiwan before the age of 15, you can get a expatriate proof from TECO in the US. After that, if you are born before 1984, you can take VISA-run like trips out the country every 4 months. They will push back service until you are 36 when there is no obligation to serve anymore. But 4-month visa run is a pain in the butt…

if you are born after 1984, then tough luck… if you stay in Taiwan over 6 month accumulatively, conscription letter will be on its way.

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3

Tyang, your parents are Taiwanese and you have hence acquired ROC citizenship from birth. What else than being expected to fulfill citizenship duties did you expect? After all you also have it easier as far as residence and work is concerned.

The law already takes into consideration that you spent your formative years abroad and nobody will force you to return to Taiwan and serve in the military.

Yet why should you be treated any different from other ROC citizens when you actually relocate to Taiwan to live like any other Taiwanese?

If your Chinese or cultural integration is poor, blame your parents for not sending you to the proper 華僑中心 on the weekends when you were a child.

4

tyang, don’t listen to your employer. Don’t get a Taiwan ID…until you’re 36. Getting one now will only cause you problems…and solve his/hers. If you have a Taiwan ID, he/she doesn’t have to bother with getting/maintaining your work permit. If you just wait 1 more year, you can apply for an APRC and get an open work permit.

“Moreover, I have rent to cover, so if I do military, how am I suppose to pay the rent with the tiny amount they give and where I am going to put my personal belongings?”
If you have a hukou, doesn’t that mean your mom has an address somewhere in Taiwan? Couldn’t you temporarily store your personal belongings there?

Even if you end up having to serve in the military, you can cancel your rented apartment(?) and rent a storage garage (something like Public Storage in the US) to temporarily store your personal belongings. That should be much more affordable if you are serving in the military.

5

ROC nationals are not eligible for APRCs. They may only receive ARCs if entering with a foreign passport. They may never ever receive an APRc though.

6

[quote=“hsinhai78”]

ROC nationals are not eligible for APRCs. They may only receive ARCs if entering with a foreign passport. They may never ever receive an APRc though.[/quote]

that is unless one gives up his/her ROC nationality, I have more than 1 friend doing so after they returned to Taiwan and work permanently here. I’d say if the OP is close to 36, either he keep his ARC and let his boss deal with the work permits, or he get his ID and do VISA-runs, since he would obviously be born before 1984, and he wouldn’t have to do it that long before the obligation to serve ends. If he is like 26 or something, then oh well, either get the boss to quit complaining, or serve either in the military or if one has a master degree or above, serve in the research alternative service.

7

[quote=“hsinhai78”]Tyang, your parents are Taiwanese and you have hence acquired ROC citizenship from birth. What else than being expected to fulfill citizenship duties did you expect? After all you also have it easier as far as residence and work is concerned.

The law already takes into consideration that you spent your formative years abroad and nobody will force you to return to Taiwan and serve in the military.

Yet why should you be treated any different from other ROC citizens when you actually relocate to Taiwan to live like any other Taiwanese?

If your Chinese or cultural integration is poor, blame your parents for not sending you to the proper 華僑中心 on the weekends when you were a child.[/quote]

I undertand your argument but to me it jut seems totally invalid.

Yes, I am of Taiwanese descent, but that does not mean I should integrate Taiwanese culture in my American life. If I am obligated to, then African Americans should also learn about te tribes and heritage in Africa, but do they?

Me coming here to work is just like me going to any other country. I came thinking I might just work here for a bit and eventually go “home.” If your concept applies then does that mean companies who sent their employees here should also descriminate oversea Taiwanese because they might get drafted? With the way Taiwanese government is set up I’m sure there is a work around, so why should those people have the privilege?

Lastly, I don’t necessary disagree with military consricption, that is, if the person is natively Taiwanese. But the fact is that this is an obviously outdated law that was used to protect Taiwan from China. There is no need anymore, and China doesn’t even want Taiwan even if everyone hand themselves over. The newer generation certainly does not have this problem.

I am not privileged. I might look Taiwanese and have Taiwanese parents, but my heart is American and my parents don’t even want to come back to Taiwan. This is just my point of view…

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8

[quote=“Gryphon”]tyang, don’t listen to your employer. Don’t get a Taiwan ID…until you’re 36. Getting one now will only cause you problems…and solve his/hers. If you have a Taiwan ID, he/she doesn’t have to bother with getting/maintaining your work permit. If you just wait 1 more year, you can apply for an APRC and get an open work permit.

“Moreover, I have rent to cover, so if I do military, how am I suppose to pay the rent with the tiny amount they give and where I am going to put my personal belongings?”
If you have a hukou, doesn’t that mean your mom has an address somewhere in Taiwan? Couldn’t you temporarily store your personal belongings there?

Even if you end up having to serve in the military, you can cancel your rented apartment(?) and rent a storage garage (something like Public Storage in the US) to temporarily store your personal belongings. That should be much more affordable if you are serving in the military.[/quote]

I am not sure what my hukou is all about. My parents sold their house long time ago… It could be that my mom is using my grandma’s address? I am not sure

But my equipment is over thousands of dollars. Storing anywhere without proper treatment will ruin everything with the humidity here.

At this point I am thinking of going back home, still deciding. I am 31 now so if I do go back I guess I’ll just wait till I’m 36 to visit Taiwan again.

9

man, that comment on China-Taiwan relationship couldn’t be more wrong.

look, as a fellow Taiwanese American I agree with you that the obligation placed on you seems unnecessary, but even if you don’t have to integrate the Taiwanese culture into your life-style, you could benefit from getting a reality check with common sense in the current/world events area…

10

[quote=“hansioux”]

man, that comment on China-Taiwan relationship couldn’t be more wrong.

look, as a fellow Taiwanese American I agree with you that the obligation placed on you seems unnecessary, but even if you don’t have to integrate the Taiwanese culture into your life-style, you could benefit from getting a reality check with common sense in the current/world events area…[/quote]

haha ok sorry I was just trying to make a point =P

but what I was trying to say was that I don’t mind military conscription and I think it’s a Taiwanese duty to follow their system. But to get someone that has no clue about Taiwan and force them into their laws seems absurd.

That being said, I am not saying I, of all the people, should be exempt. If there’s a valid reason for an “American” serve Taiwanese military, then I’m all for it. The law just seems biased to me right now.

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11

What does this mean…

from Wikipedia:

“On 1 August 2008, the Defence Minister announced that from 2014 on, Taiwan would have a purely volunteer professional force. However, males who opt not to volunteer will be subjected to three to four-month military training. Those who do not have a tertiary education will have a three-month training when reaching military age, whereas those who are receiving tertiary education will have to complete the training in summer vacations.[68]
Should this policy remain unchanged, although Taiwan will have a purely volunteer professional force, every male will still be conscripted to receive a three- to four-month military training. Thus, after 2014, compulsory military service will still remain in practice in Taiwan.”

12

[quote=“tying”] I undertand your argument but to me it jut seems totally invalid.

Yes, I am of Taiwanese descent, but that does not mean I should integrate Taiwanese culture in my American life. If I am obligated to, then African Americans should also learn about te tribes and heritage in Africa, but do they?

I am not privileged. I might look Taiwanese and have Taiwanese parents, but my heart is American and my parents don’t even want to come back to Taiwan. This is just my point of view…[/quote]

In that case I suggest you align your feelings with your official status: give up ROC nationality, it should not be more than just a mere formality to you. Your conscription woes will instantly be gone and you can be 100% American and American only.

You cannot have it both ways though.

13

[quote=“tyang”]What does this mean…

from Wikipedia:

“On 1 August 2008, the Defence Minister announced that from 2014 on, Taiwan would have a purely volunteer professional force. However, males who opt not to volunteer will be subjected to three to four-month military training. Those who do not have a tertiary education will have a three-month training when reaching military age, whereas those who are receiving tertiary education will have to complete the training in summer vacations.[68]
Should this policy remain unchanged, although Taiwan will have a purely volunteer professional force, every male will still be conscripted to receive a three- to four-month military training. Thus, after 2014, compulsory military service will still remain in practice in Taiwan.”[/quote]

don’t take the words of the current government, it is failing badly in almost every aspect, including their promise to deliver an all volunteer army. Or maybe they are just tanking the economy so hard so they can deliver on the volunteer army promise…

14

DON’T get the Taiwan ID card. Nothing good comes from it.

Both my bro and I were born here, but raised in America. We both came back 7 years ago. I decided to get my Taiwan ID card. Now I’m screwed and have to leave the country every 4 months to avoid conscription. Even with a ARC, I have to leave every 4 months. My bro never got the Taiwan ID card so he’s fine.

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15

Well you don’t have to you choose to.

16

Did you get a hukou or a huji? From my understanding, hukou is just putting your name down on a property. Huji is getting Household Registration; you’ll also get an ROC ID.

If you got a huji and an ROC ID, and you were able to get a ARC, then someone at NIA messed up. You cannot get an ARC if you have an ROC ID number (it doesn’t matter whether our household registration or ID card expired). But don’t worry, you are in a beautiful loophole. You don’t have to serve. I doubt they’ll catch you. When you apply for Household Registration at age 37, you can get full ROC citizenship.