Don't be overzealous (Family Mart shoplifting case)

I don’t think it’s that she goes to the police that people found distasteful. I think it was the extortionate bribe she tried to collect in order to drop charges.

But he is not a Pigeon Murderer :wink:

passenger pigeon

Apologies Lord Melcheth

Imagine having to go to the cops 10 times a week. I would imagine 9/10 say they forgot to pay. She has to waste her time, she had to pay for cctv. 4000nt was a bargain

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Yeah he should have paid her off. But hey he wanted to do it his way.

Yeah he seems very entitled to me. His attitude has been embarrassing from the start.

Back in 2003-2005 I had a mate that had a bad habit of lifting Jack Daniels nips from 7-11s. He did it at the one near my place reeatedly, and I told him to stop his nonsense.

Sure enough I walk into my 7-11 and they hold me back with an A4 printout of him lifting the liquor, and second photo walking out.

I said I know him but not a friend. They were angry.

Later that day I shat on him. He laughed it off.

He’s back in Taichung now - :speak_no_evil: his name is.

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I wouldn’t have paid it myself if I had simply forgot to pay. It’s the principle of the matter. And to be extorted for it.

I walked out of restaurants twice in many years of being here by accident and just went back to pay the next day. Oops.
Nobody called the cops

OP was found guilty twice, but this type of post is of dubious value.

If I close this thread again, it won’t be the first time, but it will be the last, because I won’t re-open it.

If someone does something illegal, generally it is not ok to extort money over it. In most western countries, what the OP did is not illegal as he lacked intent. It seems either intent is not a part of the statute in Taiwan or the legal system just made an error. Regardless, the OP is a victim of extortion. I don’t know if you’ve ever been the victim of extortion, but it doesn’t feel good.

It’s not extortion in Taiwan. Paying money like this to the victim is fairly common. I don’t want to get the thread closed , but look at how he speaks about Taiwan and the situation, how he sees himself, then imagine how he would come across possibly to people face to face when discussing what happened. He says the judge was angry with him. He admits to happily wasting the courts time etc costing money for psych evals. He was found guilty and fined by the courts, he chose community service ( or a paid vacation as he put it ) and lost a weeks wages. We only know what he has told us. He admitted taking without paying, he didn’t go back to pay. He told us the shop is regularly robbed. The profit margin is already low in shops. I can admittedly only imagine how he came across when faced with the owner, the cops and the judge. But I’m not surprised at all that they did go all the way over 65nt and I’m certain they don’t in 99% of the cases like this.

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There is a difference between a court ordering the payment of restitution/damages and a claimant agreeing to withdraw a criminal complaint for money. The first is legal, the second is extortion. However, I am not an expert on Taiwanese law, so perhaps victims of crimes in Taiwan are allowed to demand payment in order not to make a claim. If so it’s a bit unnerving.

I’m not an expert too, but I believe reconciliation outside of court is not illegal in Taiwan. Iiuc, the owner didn’t extort but just propose her condition for reconciliation.

Reconciliation of this type is typically a civil matter, not a criminal one in legal systems I’m familiar with. The government would decide whether or not to bring charges, not a victim. Exactly for the reason we see here. Otherwise it incentivizes people to abuse the criminal system for personal gain rather than just be made whole through a civil trial.

Reconciliation can be a reason of a suspension of an indictment.

It’s legal here and commonly done. It’s also done in Thailand commonly. It keeps the courts from being clogged up and a punishment is served still. Just because it’s different to what you are used to, doesn’t make it wrong.

You still see it as extortion. The victim and the thief both have to agree. The thief gets to avoid court etc and the victim too. But the victim gets compensated. She didn’t abuse the system. Why should she have to just put up with it, she’s in the police station 10 times a week, and to you that makes her the one taking advantage, that means she gets robbed daily. Despite the guy being found guilty of theft, you still want to berate the victim of the theft. The OP wanted to pay her just the price of 65nt, why is that sufficient ? If that’s the case everyone would just take what ever they wanted and only pay when caught.

If he took it as a result of his ADHD as he tried to claim. Why didn’t it ever happen before ? And why hasn’t it happened since ? At every step he has tried to not accept blame. That’s why it went to court. That’s why a 65nt theft took 2 years of court time.

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if you check cases of shoplifting, you find many suspects insist they didn’t intend. It may no be easy to know who indeed lacked intent.

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Indeed, this is true. That is why shoplifting is almost never prosecuted, and when it is it involves expensive items so that intent can be assumed. If one were to prosecute dime-store shoplifting, you’d have to have footage or witnesses demonstrating curious behavior (e.g., furtively looking around) or intent to deceive (e.g., putting an item in your pants rather than just walking out with it).

Let’s just stick to the facts that are relevant to the case.

The OP walked out without paying for an item in a store he frequently visits. The shop owner files a criminal complaint rather than just talk to him next time she sees him. The shop owner demands a payment of over 60 times the value of the item in order to drop the criminal complaint.

In most western countries, this is clearly illegal. Even if this is legal in Taiwan, I would argue that it is inherently immoral and it is plainly an abuse of the legal system. It is just “give me money or I will have the state prosecute you for a crime”. I really don’t see how someone can defend this type of behavior.

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