No, it’s not automatic at all, after the age of 20. You definitely need a parent (mother or father) with a Taiwanese hukou (which means they would have been issued a national ID number at some point in their lives) to start the process, but it’s still a long road after that (so many documents to procure, notarize AND authenticate, plus background checks and medical exams) AND THEN you have to stay in Taiwan for 360 consecutive days (which is a hell of a lot of consecutive days to be on a rainy island, if you think about it–though you can break it up over years, if you want, and it would just take a lot longer).
Now, your parents can register you (and their marriage) before you turn 20 and then yes, you get a national ID and full nationality that is basically impossible to lose. When I went through my own nationality process, my mom had to get all of her documents renewed and that was all rather straightforward: all she really needed was a new photo and a Taiwanese address (she used her friend’s).
The official translation is actually “shall have” http://www.moi.gov.tw/english/english_law/law_detail.aspx?sn=82 so now about 80% of your argument is gone. I didn’t just use wikipedia, as 3-4 clerks/managers at the NIA and the Dept. of Household registration told me the same thing. Please go there and ask if you don’t believe me, please. Ask them: “If both my parents are 中華民國國民 (national), am I a 中華民國國民 (national) even if I haven’t registered/applied for passport?” The answer will be an emphatic “yes.” Obviously you need to PROVE to them that your parent(s) are indeed 中華民國國民 before they will recognize you as a 中華民國國民, which is the long process you went through.
Also please understand you and I are talking about the same thing. It is just a wording or logic issue (chicken before egg, vice versa).
I’m only speculating, but because Nationality is a birth right, you can probably request the judge to give you time to finish the paperwork and get processed as a National.
I don’t quite understand this. If you are born of ROC parent(s) (and thus have a birth right for nationality) but are unregistered, you can stay in Taiwan with a status of either a a pure foreigner or as a national (but you need to prove it). If you want to have the status of National but can’t prove it because you lost documentation…then I don’t know the details.
Yes, we’re talking about the same thing. But what the law states and how it is employed in practice is very relevant to the discussion, especially in a forum people use to learn more about how to navigate obtaining/reclaiming/employing nationality in a real way.
Saying nationality is automatic when you’re parents are nationals—you just have to prove it–is a bit like saying anyone is an American citizen–you just have to prove you qualify (which is kind of right, but not exactly representative of a complicated reality.)
As I’ve written before, for someone over the age of 20, to enjoy ANY rights of nationality, you have to do a hell of a lot more than just PROVE you have ROC parents. You must first apply for an overseas passport, then go to Taiwan and get a TARC (this requires a huge amount of paperwork and coordinating the notarization and authentication of documents–which is costly both in terms of time and money) and once that’s done, you must stay for a full year (and that’s the quickest way) before applying for an ID number. Going through all of this well beyond the definition of proving anything other than one’s determination to get that national ID number, and to say otherwise is somewhat abusive of the English language.
Yes, you must have at least one Taiwanese parent to even get the initial passport and TARC, and unlike people who have ZERO ROC parents, you don’t have to renounce your previous nationality, but I think it’s amply clear that this “automatic” nationality means nothing to anyone, unless you try to get an APRC, apparently. (I’m curious to know about other cases wherein this automatic thing kicks in.)
But that’s what I mean… This “automatic” nationality actually creates an interesting legal question for unregistered nationals who live in Taiwan. If you can’t get an APRC because one of your parents is an ROC national, that means you MUST live in Taiwan as a foreigner IF you can’t procure the documentation to become registered. For example, say your father was an ROC national and he passed away long ago, and there are no longer any physical records (such as his passport and ID card). You could be in Taiwan working on an ARC, but you’d be trapped in this position, because unlike a “real” foreigner, you could never apply for an APRC or naturalization, but without this “PROOF”, you’d never be able to get the overseas passport or TARC.
If you can’t prove your father was a national (I’m assuming your mother is not in the scenario), then you can’t prove you are a National. Under the all viewing truth of God, you are a National. Under Taiwan law, since you can’t prove it, then you are not. You can go and get an APRC since Taiwan doesn’t recognize your parents as Nationals. Again, you’re too focused on the word “automatic” or just wording issues. All I’m saying is Nationality is a birth right. Taiwanese officials will say you were a National from birth, not that you “only became a National” after you finished the application process. In all practical purposes, what you say and I say are the same.
If you want to draw an analogy to “citizenship,” it is household registration. Other than this detail, your analogy is just wrong: “Anyone” does not qualify for U.S. citizenship. On the other hand, anyone with ROC parent(s) do qualify as and are considered ROC Nationals. If you want the ROC government to recognize you as a National, you have to prove you have ROC parent(s). However, once you do this, you don’t “then become a National”; you were always a National.
I really don’t know what you’re arguing about here. You are a National (國民), that is your birth right, if you can prove it obviously. The process that you describe above is becoming a 有戶籍國民 (National with Household Registration; NWHR). Really, you have to understand Nationality (國民) means nothing. It is the 有戶籍國民 that really means “Nationals” or “Citizens” as used in every other country than Taiwan.
And, finally, you must also understand that this unconventional play on the word Nationality and the fact that Citizen is never used in the language is because of appeasing the PRC (most likely).
But that’s just it–you can’t be just a “foreigner” if you do have a Taiwanese parent. In the case of the poster, he learned he was a national AFTER he applied for the APRC because his mother was an ROC national. So yes, indeed, the birth connection means something, even if you don’t want it to.
And no, we might be talking about the same subject, but we’re not saying the same things for any practical purpose.
I have deliberately avoided the use of the word “citizenship” for the very reason that Taiwan ONLY has “nationals”. And yes, indeed, it’s confusing to use “nationality” in so many different ways.
But you’re wrong to assume I don’t understand the various uses of the word, particularly in the Taiwanese context. I think it’s pretty important to be precise when describing these things, just because it is so messy.
You might be a “national” because your parents are from Taiwan, but it’s still different from being a NWOHR. A NWOHR can have an “overseas” passport and a TARC, and this affords them certain privileges to live and work in Taiwan that most “foreigners” will never enjoy. It’s still not being a “full national”, but it’s a whole lot more than being a “national by birthright”. Then, of course you have NWHR, which, as you so accurately pointed out, involves household registration, and, as a consequence, a national ID number.
With so many levels of “nationality”, it’s just not helpful to simplify the usage down to “birthright”, or cloud the matter with “citizenship”, or even to say “it means nothing”.
Do you understand Chinese? I am using the word National to mean 國民. This is the direct technical translation and, thus, it is better to use it in this context. The following is all fact, trust me: Everyone of ROC parent(s) are 國民 (Nationals). This is true even if you did zero paperwork. You, specifically, were a 國民 from birth. All 國民 (Nationals) who did not go through the process of Household Registration are called 無戶籍國民 (Nationals without Household Registration; NWOHR). These people don’t yet have 戶籍 (Household Registration). You were always labeled a NWOHR – before and after you got your “Passport without an ROC ID.” You will only be called a 有戶籍國民 (National with Household Registration; NWHR) after you get your 戶籍. You get 戶籍 after you live in Taiwan for 1 year (or a meaningful amount of time). The passport lets you enter Taiwan as a National and not as a foreigner (which is one of the requirements to get 戶籍). The TARC lets you live in Taiwan (and get a job). For the sake of wording, the passport wasn’t a step to become a NWOHR, you were always a NWOHR.
I hope you finally understand and that nobody gets the wrong information. Please confirm all this with the NIA or Dept. of Household Registration before you explain your own theories. Ask:
“If my parent(s) are 國民 (national), am I a 國民 (national) even if I haven’t registered/applied for passport?” The answer will be “yes.”
“Was I labeled as a 無戶籍國民 (NWOHR) before I applied for the passport?” The answer will be “yes.”
It is apparent you don’t understand. I am being extremely precise with my wording.
You are obviously confused. First, Nationals are split into two groups: NWOHR and NWHR. Nothing more and nothing less.
Yes, by birth, you have more privileges in Taiwan than a foreigner. However, please try to understand that you did not suddenly achieve NWOHR status after obtaining your passport. Ask…
Let’s never use “full nationality”; instead use “有戶籍國民” or the English translation “National with Household Registration (NWHR).” I’m just being precise with wording.
Those official translations usually have no legal weight. However, we can check the original wording:
有下列各款情形之一者，屬中華民國國籍
屬 indicates belonging to a category. In this context, you could translate it as the verb to be, e.g. [a person] having one of the following conditions is of ROC nationality.
The distinction between nationality and citizenship doesn’t exist in every country (kind of like worker and employee), but obviously an ROC national is a person with ROC nationality, and NWHR and NWOHR are precise terms for the purpose of this discussion.
Trying to do a little research on the subject of dual citizenship and would like any clarity (but i am going to my local immigration office to get more info).
I am in the situation that was quoted here. I’m 37, American with Taiwanese mother, have lived and worked in Taiwan 10+ years on an ARC. When I went in to apply for an APRC a few years ago, I was told I was not eligible because my mother is Taiwanese. I’d have to apply for citizenship. I was advised to wait until the year I turn 37 to avoid military service. The officer at the immigration office told me I had to first apply for temporary citizenship for one year, and then I would become a permanent citizen. Would I need to renounce my American citizenship during this process? What documents do I need to provide? I have my mother’s ID here, but not her Taiwanese passport. In addition, my mother owns a house here in Taiwan. Not sure if that’s pertinent information, but figured I’d include all details that might be helpful. Thanks to anyone that can provide a bit more clarity on the application process. Oh…one last question…how long should I expect this to take?
If either of your parents had Taiwanese nationality when you were born, you are not eligible for a APRC because you have nationality by blood.
I also worked here on an ARC for years, and had to start over be be a national with “household registration”.
I’m assuming you were born overseas and do not have a national ID. First you need to get a Taiwanese passport without national ID from a TECO/TECRO overseas. Then you need to enter Taiwan on it and go to the immigration agency to apply for a TARC (national without household registration). Documents you need and time line for that are on other threads. Once you have your TARC, you need to stay at least 1 year without ever exiting, or at least a total of 270 days spanned across 2 years. Then you can go to immigration to apply for a residence certificate, which you will take to the household registration office where you will register your household. You should have either your mother’s household registration or deed to her house/land when you do this, unless your landlord/friend will let you register your household under theirs.
You will not need to renounce your American citizenship if you go this route since you had nationality by birth.
It can be done anywhere but you will need to mail a bunch of documents around to the TECO office in the states. Your best bet is to find a broker that can do this for you. You will need a bunch of documents, including your birth certificate, your parents’ documentations, etc. These need to be mailed around and validated by the TECO office in charge of your birth area. Like I said find a broker because it’s pretty complicated and a massive hassle - give them your documentation (or have your mom give it all to them) and they will do the rest.
If you have a list of required documents and get all of them, the most of hassle is already done. You send some documents to TECO for Authentication, and submit an application at NIA with the required documents. I think documents issued by Taiwanese organizations (such as your mother’s Taiwanese documents) don’t need Authentication.
@djm409
At least you need a proof of nationality and a proof of (foreign) residency (i.e. passport).
The act below would give you some idea what is a proof of nationality.
The hassle is in knowing the correct sequence and who to mail stuff to. Yeah if you already know what you need to do then it’s not a huge deal, but at the time I didn’t and didn’t want to spend the hours to research who to mail to, who to authenticate, what to translate, what to notarize, etc. Paid a broker 50 bucks and called it a day.
I will see about getting all the documents on my own if possible. My current ARC will be expiring 11/30. Do you think I’d have enough time to get everything done to have a Taiwanese passport in hand by that time, or should I just renew my ARC? This is a question I’ll also be asking the immigration officer, of course.
