English teachers of Taiwan, untie!

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

I’m absolutely not suggesting forming a teachers’ union here, but I do need to respond to this.

Potatoes, people, Taiwanese purchase English in the same way they purchase potatoes. You are a commodity, not an expert.

Banding together and demanding better treatment is not the answer. We are in the business of education, and WE need to educate our customers so that they understand the value we bring to the table. Some of us do OK at this individually, but it’s clear that the majority don’t.

This means that the assumptions we face, and the expectations people have of us, and the value thay place on us, are all lower than they need be. I’m fairly good at convincing people I’m better than average, but it would be nice if the average was higher.

I’m not interested in protesting the way teachers are treated. But I am interested in raising the level of the game. Is there any interest in, or benefit to, forming some kind of professional organisation which will promote our interests?

And yes, I know I spelt ‘unite’ wrongly. I did it on purpose.

2

[quote=“Loretta”]I’m absolutely not suggesting forming a teachers’ union here, but I do need to respond to this.

Potatoes, people, Taiwanese purchase English in the same way they purchase potatoes. You are a commodity, not an expert.

Banding together and demanding better treatment is not the answer. We are in the business of education, and WE need to educate our customers so that they understand the value we bring to the table. Some of us do OK at this individually, but it’s clear that the majority don’t.

This means that the assumptions we face, and the expectations people have of us, and the value thay place on us, are all lower than they need be. I’m fairly good at convincing people I’m better than average, but it would be nice if the average was higher.

I’m not interested in protesting the way teachers are treated. But I am interested in raising the level of the game. Is there any interest in, or benefit to, forming some kind of professional organisation which will promote our interests?

And yes, I know I spelt ‘unite’ wrongly. I did it on purpose.[/quote]

I agree, there is definitely a need for some sort of organisation. If all it serves to do is show that not all English teachers are here for the beach parties, then it will have done something. I’d also be keen to develop my skills as a teacher and share ideas on where the industry in Taiwan is heading / should be heading. Sign me up.

3

EYE was here for the beach parties. I ended up being treated like a serf by a bunch of bad people and hanging out with Loretta.

The problem with organisations is that generally newbs join for the purpose of asking what games they should play in class, how they should hand out stickers and what books they should use. It’s an online forum only sloooowww.

You can’t ‘force’ people to treat you a certain way. They won’t treat you better if you work harder. They aren’t treating you a certain way because your economic value is a certain way.

4

“untie” ???

5

Er, free yourself from the shackles of servitude?
Don’t let anyone tell you, a mere English teacher, how to spell anything.
Just making the point that this is not a union.
Actually, this is an old English word predating Shakespeare, which is derived from the norse “untia,” meaning to receive that which is due to you - used by kings in reference to the serfs. The implication is that with years of experience we should walk into the classrooms as unidsputed members of the aristocracy to whom all others should show great deference and gratitude in the form of cold hard cash. I could be making this up, of course.

Yup. I agree. So how about a an association that has strict membership limits? ie no newbies.

Instead of trying to persuade people to be nice to alcoholic kids with no skills, create a ‘quality standard’ to differentiate ourselves from them. It starts by demonstrating an understanding of the environment in which we operate, allying ourselves with the establishment and being seen to be experts working with them instead of necessary evils to be purchased at the lowest price.

6

One shouldn’t confuse education with that of business…

7

[quote=“Loretta”]
Yup. I agree. So how about a an association that has strict membership limits? ie no newbies.

Instead of trying to persuade people to be nice to alcoholic kids with no skills, create a ‘quality standard’ to differentiate ourselves from them. It starts by demonstrating an understanding of the environment in which we operate, allying ourselves with the establishment and being seen to be experts working with them instead of necessary evils to be purchased at the lowest price.[/quote]

Me, I used to have one. It only had me in it. You see, where I worked, the people who were better than me were only interested in standing on my face in order to help themselves, not in helping my students, or me to ‘get better’ No impact on their ‘Feedback surveys’, y’see?

You see the thing with me and teaching is I hate teaching. I hate classrooms, crappy inappropriate textbooks, desks, the ‘performance’ aspect, the bovine mouthbreathy waiting to be filter-dripped with info, like bad coffee students, my bitchy boring self-promoting coworkers (not all of you, my dears who may be reading), the whole shebang. I find it deeply immoral.

But I love learning, and language acquisition, and linguistics, and
helping people do what they want
. Buxibans and adult language classes are idiotic social clubs, and I don’t want to be a yoga teacher for 50 hours a week. Yawn, snooze, zzzz. My point of my repeating the ‘Buttercup hates teaching’ ramble is that there is a place for all who want one - just that you have to be sharp and play to your strengths in order to find the right niche.

Lola, you should start a self-help/language learning website. Your current website is cack, honeypie. Start disseminating that can-do energy.

8

Loretta, I think a professional association would be a great idea. You should probably get people involved from the higher levels of the industry: business trainers, guys with higher degrees, guys with specialized training in EFL (TESOL, C/DELTA etc) and definitely also some guys with connections and political savvy i.e. some of the de facto diplomats or their cronies. Also, control of the association should be in the hands of people who already have some status in “the community” to avoid people ego tripping. I would also suggest getting people involved who have a long term commitment to Taiwan. We wouldn’t want it to become a forum for ranting newbies! And definitely no tall skinny Brits with high boots and blond hair!

9

…who wouldn’t touch it with a bargepole. Sorry, but just try it. People at a higher level don’t want to help people at a middle level, anymore than you want to spend your days explaining sticky ball games. The time margins are always too tight in EFL, for a start.

Informal and personally connected is the way to go. Websitey goodness, with information/materials as a sweetener.

‘untie’, not retie with additional circles of stupid.

10

Agreed.
If you are going to restrict membership to non-noobs… for example, teachers that have been here longer than a year, then I very much doubt that you’re going to get the membership you need.

Let’s face it, if you haven’t worked things out in a year, you’re probably not going to contribute much to a gathering of teachers. And if you have worked things out… well, why would you join a group like this?
:2cents:

11

Loretta: I’m interested in the idea, for sure, even if only because you seem like a really enthusiastic, dedicated person, and such people are interesting to meet, if nothing else.

Having said that, I’m really burnt out right now. I’m going to see out my contract. Then, next year, I’m going over to the dark side. I think I’ve mentioned that I have a friend who is here without an ARC who works entirely under the table for several employers, doesn’t do any unpaid hours (including prep.), is generally a clown and so on, yet has a hassle-free life and makes a pretty decent amount of money. I introduced him to my best friend. My best friend has recently started doing the same thing (though he has some sort of ARC job) and he said it is so much better than what he was doing before (the standard single employer, legitimate thing). If an employer starts getting on his shit, he walks, as he has already with one.

I can’t change Taiwan, or at least the personal cost would be too high to me. My wife and I are going to work until about the end of next year, by which time we should have saved a fair bit of money. We’re going to leave Taiwan and travel in other parts of Asia for a year or more, and then we may come back.

We should also have enough money to last us six months or more when we come back without having to liquidate any of our investments. I don’t plan on being in the trenches of teaching if I can avoid it. Maybe I’ll do something on the periphery of teaching (but I’d have to be working for myself), or maybe I’ll do something completely different (again, working for myself). I’ll have the funds to do so. I can’t be in a classroom for too much longer. My particular kind of personality means it just comes at too high a cost emotionally/psychologically.

I applaud you for wanting to make a difference (though I think that largely, the Taiwanese need to figure these things out for themselves, or at least need to be willing to hear it from us), but any passion I once had for teaching is just about gone. Also, to be a really good teacher is one of the hardest things in the world. It takes enormous dedication and I’m simply not willing to give that much of myself anymore. I’ve been there and done that elsewhere, and I’ve been there and done that here. Perhaps I wasn’t doing it the most efficient way. I don’t know, but I just don’t want to be a teacher anymore.

Like I said though, I’m interested in what you think or have to say.

12

So why do we see many comments like the one quoted at the top? Here for years, still being jerked around.

It’s not about ‘working things out,’ it’s about having a collective voice which is different from the background noise created by thousands of average people.

If you want to learn how to dive, do you ask some guy who knows how to swim? Or do you go to an instructor endorsed by a professional organisation like PADI? Do you learn to sail from someone who knows how, or from an instructor recognised by the Royal Yachting Association? Who’s going to teach you martial arts? Some guy who likes hitting people, or someone who is approved to teach by an association?

Historically, high-skill activities have never been regulated solely or fully by governments. The people involved created their own quality standards and became recognised as the authority, which means they get to sit down with government to talk about how things should be done.

In any case, it was a stupid idea and I own up to having a bit of a brain-fart in proposing it. Any form of professional body is going to require the members to pay fees, and is going to need someone running the show. I’m not interested in doing the latter and would be suspicious of anyone that was. I doubt that anyone would be willing to put up money either.

hey, and can we leave off the retarded comments about unions, strike-breaking, etc? It just makes you look like you don’t have the elementary reading skills to understand phrases like these.[quote]I’m absolutely not suggesting forming a teachers’ union here… But I am interested in raising the level of the game. Is there any interest in, or benefit to, forming some kind of professional organisation which will promote our interests? … demonstrating an understanding of the environment in which we operate, allying ourselves with the establishment and being seen to be experts working with them[/quote]

Or do you just not care what I said, and prefer to talk about something else? This is the forum about teaching, and I would prefer the people who are not involved in teaching to either contribute something useful or else go and play somewhere else.