Orange Organics is busy drafting the list of criteria now. i) Must shop at City Super 2-3 times a week… etc etc. Here’s some pics in the meantime.
American Expat:
British Expat:
[quote=“HenHaoChi”][quote]
I still dont consider english teachers expats, so tough to you. Thats not my criteria.[/quote]
Who cares about labels? With respect, you come off like a job snob. Could you give a bullet point list of your criteria so we can all laugh? If you’re earning, you’ve got a visa, and a contract, you’re a foreign worker… who cares about the rest of it? If I’ve read you wrong, plz correct me.
I am an economic migrant.
[/quote]
I don’t care. Still have a specific definition, which is the samw definition see commonly used: Business, sent over by company, expat package, work in management, usually privately educated, golf, rugby,HK, Singapore, ra ra, Hash House Harriers etc. ’ If you have your own idea, that’s fine. I am not an expat, never would want to be. What is the problem?
I don’t understand why anyone would care how someone else sees the world, its not like the expat label has positive associations. When living in HK I had a clear sense of what an expat was and that I was not one of them.
Maybe I misunderstood you. But why label ‘expats’ in a negative light either? Plenty of banking types in HK are decent people. I have met them in private and they were fine. Even when I asked them for directions in the street they never talked down to me or showed any arrogance. They are just people with families who happen to be good at maths.
It’s a waste of energy labelling and stuffing people into boxes. Why single out English Teachers? How would you label yourself? Anyway… nevermind, it’s a sunny day.
Not really, it’s hazy, very hazy … as the term ‘expat’ is.
[quote=“Zla’od”]By the same linguistic token, “UFO” means only anything up in the sky, that you don’t know what it is. We all know it carries additional connotations.
Are dictionaries meant to be prescriptive or descriptive? If the latter, then several of the ones quoted above are simply out of date, or perhaps reflect regional practice, or one option among many. The fact is that “expat” is used in different ways, and not always with perfect logical consistency. The coinage seems to reflect a postwar situation, which has now changed enough that we struggle to identify which elements defined it. (Whiteness, wealth, temporariness, sent-from-abroad-ness, etc.)[/quote]
But generally people don’t identify themselves as UFOs, nor do others usually identify them that way.
I wouldn’t so much mind each person riding off in his or her own direction, if it hadn’t been my experience concerning the English language that people want others to ride off with them, will they or nill they. That is, there seems to be a tendency not only for a person to be his or her own authority, but also for that person to impose his or her authority on others. And I have encountered that on a goodly number of occasions in my life, and on a few occasions on this bulletin board.
I usually resort to authorities such as dictionaries, grammars, the usage of authors, etc., to assert my right to avoid some other person’s personal rules.
Maybe I misunderstood you. But why label ‘expats’ in a negative light either? Plenty of banking types in HK are decent people. I have met them in private and they were fine. Even when I asked them for directions in the street they never talked down to me or showed any arrogance. They are just people with families who happen to be good at maths.
It’s a waste of energy labelling and stuffing people into boxes. Why single out English Teachers? How would you label yourself? Anyway… nevermind, it’s a sunny day.
[/quote]
We all label people, that’s how we male sense of the world. I wouldn’t call English teachers expats, sorry. Loads of other foreigners wouldn’t call expats either.
I don’t understand why you care so much or giving me a hard time. Its not like its important
Sure we label each other, but labels should be loose, light, and subject to change. Excessive use dehumanizes people. This is not a knock on you, just a random thought that I’m writing. I don’t ‘care,’ + I’m not giving you a hard time, we’re just discussing. I think you are right that English Teachers are not typical expats, and they don’t fall under the standa… OK lunch. Nvm.
Maybe I misunderstood you. But why label ‘expats’ in a negative light either? Plenty of banking types in HK are decent people. I have met them in private and they were fine. Even when I asked them for directions in the street they never talked down to me or showed any arrogance. They are just people with families who happen to be good at maths.
It’s a waste of energy labelling and stuffing people into boxes. Why single out English Teachers? How would you label yourself? Anyway… nevermind, it’s a sunny day.
[/quote]
We all label people, that’s how we male sense of the world. I wouldn’t call English teachers expats, sorry. Loads of other foreigners wouldn’t call expats either.
I don’t understand why you care so much or giving me a hard time. Its not like its important[/quote]
To my understanding and what I’ve heard over the years being in Taiwan is that many ET’s are here making money to pay-off their huge student loans, or were backpackers (teaching illegally), or something in-between. Few can be regarded as real expats on a generous pay package, with adequate living arrangements, private school paid for their kids and a membership at the American Club. Some openend their own school, and when, most of them are than married to a local.
BTW, Asian and African ‘expats’ working in the Middle East as a construction worker, or even maids are more or less considered being ‘slaves’ by the rich locals.
Basically there is no wrong or right. Anyone can see the world as they want to. If someone says to me ‘Discovery Bay is sooooo expatty’. We both roughly have a shared idea of the meaning of the term. If your definition is different that’s cool。
Maybe I misunderstood you. But why label ‘expats’ in a negative light either? Plenty of banking types in HK are decent people. I have met them in private and they were fine. Even when I asked them for directions in the street they never talked down to me or showed any arrogance. They are just people with families who happen to be good at maths.
It’s a waste of energy labelling and stuffing people into boxes. Why single out English Teachers? How would you label yourself? Anyway… nevermind, it’s a sunny day.
[/quote]
We all label people, that’s how we male sense of the world. I wouldn’t call English teachers expats, sorry. Loads of other foreigners wouldn’t call expats either.
I don’t understand why you care so much or giving me a hard time. Its not like its important[/quote]
It seems that negative connotations associated with labels are important to you.
No, don’t particularly care if someone is an expat. Although in my experience there are negative connotations with that label, as in being overpaid, not learning the culture, arrogant etc, so don’t understand why someone would care so much if they were considered an expat
No, it really seems that the labels and connotations are important to you. It almost seems like you have painted this picture of an expat as being an arrogant ass and that’s why you don’t want to be considered an expat. Personally I call myself an expat because the word exists and I’m not going to create a new word to describe myself. I don’t care if others want to call themselves an expat although I personally wouldn’t consider low paid overseas labor workers to be expats. And I certainly don’t care for connotations that seem to be very engrained with labels.
I’m an ex-Pat.
I used to be called Patrick, but now i’ve changed my name.
I still have a large package, though.
for some reason it’s wrapped in blue paper rather than the normal brown paper at the moment.
Zla’od wrote:
Charlie Jack wrote:
Let’s try this again: If I were to say that right now, I am looking at a UFO, but that it is probably a bird or a plane, others will complain that this is a misuse of the term “UFO,” which suggests something more extraordinary. This despite the fact that what I have seen is, technically speaking, an unidentified flying object. Similarly, I feel uncomfortable referring to myself (let alone the neighborhood maids) as an “expat,” even though technically speaking, I have expatriated myself. This is not because I dislike expats in the narrow sense (in my younger days, I aspired to become one), only a recognition of the very real socio-economic gulf that separates me from them. I sense that this is a fairly common usage, which the dictionaries ought to reflect.
No, it really seems that the labels and connotations are important to you. It almost seems like you have painted this picture of an expat as being an arrogant ass and that’s why you don’t want to be considered an expat. Personally I call myself an expat because the word exists and I’m not going to create a new word to describe myself. I don’t care if others want to call themselves an expat although I personally wouldn’t consider low paid overseas labor workers to be expats. And I certainly don’t care for connotations that seem to be very engrained with labels.[/quote]
No they don’t matter to me. Chill out, I don’t care. We all make labels and attach labels to them, that’s how human beings make sense of the world. If someone attaches negative connotations to the word banker, that’s cool. Let them do their thing, can’t expect everyone to see the world the same as you.
Just because I said I don’t consider English teachers expats
[quote=“Zla’od”]Zla’od wrote:
Charlie Jack wrote:
Let’s try this again: If I were to say that right now, I am looking at a UFO, but that it is probably a bird or a plane, others will complain that this is a misuse of the term “UFO,” which suggests something more extraordinary. This despite the fact that what I have seen is, technically speaking, an unidentified flying object. Similarly, I feel uncomfortable referring to myself (let alone the neighborhood maids) as an “expat,” even though technically speaking, I have expatriated myself. This is not because I dislike expats in the narrow sense (in my younger days, I aspired to become one), only a recognition of the very real socio-economic gulf that separates me from them. I sense that this is a fairly common usage, which the dictionaries ought to reflect.[/quote]
I get the UFO thing.
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 22#p834622
My buxiban have.[/quote]
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 74#p834674
The “descriptive” sense of expat seems to have a suspiciously prescriptive quality. I suspect that since the advent of that term (expat, not UFO), a subset of its original set of referents has somehow commandeered the term and formed it into a kind of exclusive club:
I did a brief stint–about 22 months–as a lawyer. In addition to my other mistakes, I grossly underestimated how much money I’d need to live and operate until I could get safely in the black. I ran out of money and plastic, and that’s pretty much how I wound up in East Asia. Now, while I was attempting to make a go of it, there was a “very real socio-economic gulf that separate[d] me from” a great many, probably most, of my fellow lawyers. But I’ll give them this much: with only one exception, all the lawyers I encountered seem to have treated me as if I were a lawyer, and the exception–an old acquaintance who said that I was a mere apprentice–had to do with my status as a novice rather than my socioeconomic status.
You’ve forced me to rethink my opinion of lawyers.
Sometimes usage of words change and are used to mean something else as intended or as mentioned in dictionaries, now ‘expat’ has a differnet meaning as intended at first (partially).
And I have to agree, not generalizing, that some expats can be arrogant, look down on people and see themselves as an overlord, mostly moving around in their own expat circles. Especially in diplomatic circles and management working for huge companies.
Never had issues with expats working for the MRT construction or big construction projects, but than, when we met they were mostly as drunk as I was.