Forced extraditions to China


#1

OK, everyone is taking this one with a stride as allegedly these guys are not exactly angels. But seriously, AK-47s and tear gas?! :noway: :astonished:

[quote]Taipei, April 12 (CNA) Taiwan is indignant that Kenya police brandished submachine guns and tear gas to force 37 Taiwan nationals suspected of phone fraud to board a plane bound for China on Tuesday.

Considering the move a violation of Taiwan’s jurisdiction over its nationals, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs lodged a strong protest to Nairobi after its efforts to block the move failed.

It came just days after Kenya handed over eight Taiwan nationals, who were acquitted by a Kenyan court of operating telecommunications equipment without a license on April 5, to China by putting them on a China Southern Airlines flight to China on April 8.
[/quote]

From BBC:

[quote]Taiwan has accused China of “extrajudicial abduction” after eight Taiwanese acquitted of fraud in Kenya were deported to mainland China.

They were among a group of suspects acquitted in Kenya last week.

Taiwan’s foreign ministry says they were forcibly put on a China-bound plane and has demanded their release.

China has not responded in detail to the allegations, but has criticised Taiwan for not considering itself as part of “one China”.

The incident comes as cross-strait relations are feared to be entering a rocky period, say the BBC’s Cindy Sui in Taipei.

On Monday, Taiwan’s foreign affairs ministry accused Chinese officials of “obstructions”, including delaying the court order and preventing Taiwan’s representative from reaching the acquitted.

It said China’s actions amounted to an “uncivilised act of extrajudicial abduction” which represents a “gross violation of basic human rights.”

In response to a reporter’s question on the matter, China’s foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang said: “I might need further understanding of the exact details of the case, but in principle, countries which follow the ‘one China’ principle are worthy of approval.”

Beijing has refused to have dialogue with Taiwan’s incoming President Tsai Ing-wen unless she recognises the two sides as part of one country.

Chinese President Xi Jinping and Taiwan’s current President Ma Ying-jeou held historic but largely symbolic talks in Singapore last November, the first between China and Taiwan’s leaders in more than 60 years.
[/quote]

This is how the party got started:

[quote]Kenyan authorities in November 2014 arrested 28 Taiwanese and 49 other ethnic Chinese on charges of illegally entering Kenya and involvement in a telecoms scam, the foreign ministry said in a statement.

It said 37 of the suspects including 23 Taiwanese were found not guilty by the High Court in Kenya Tuesday last week.

But Kenyan authorities last Friday deported eight of the Taiwanese to China rather than to Taiwan in response to pressure from Beijing, the ministry said.

This came as police took to court 41 more foreigners- 22 Chinese and 19- Taiwanese nationals arrested in a house for similar charges of trying to set up an illegal command centre.

The foreigners who had arrived in Nairobi as tourists were setting up the command centre in a house in Runda for cybycrimes before they were nabbed last Friday, the day the other eight Taiwanese were being deported.
[/quote]
standardmedia.co.ke/article/ … from-kenya

Between this and the row over disputed Pacific islands, it is going to be a bumpy ride to May 20th…


#2

It would be amusing if it weren’t so damn pathetic. I feel for the people of Taiwan on this one, I really do. Regardless of what they were doing over in Kenya, it seems the Chinese never miss an opportunity to put Taiwan in their place. And the Chinese rhetoric regarding the South China Sea is just frightening.


#3

Well at least we can be sure these guys won’t walk free in China…


#4

Well yeah. Not much sympathy really. Seems quite a few people head to Africa (or the third world in general) for “adventure” because they know they’re beyond the reach of the law. Which they are. Sort of. Until someone takes a dislike to them, and then they’re fucked. They knew the score: just as in Mao’s China, justice in the seamier parts of the world is contingent on who is holding the gun.

It’s hard to tell, but it seems like these guys actually were up to no good, so why would Taiwan want to waste time and money on them?


#5

Taiwanese criminals doing business with Chinese criminals are basically just Chinese criminals themselves. Much like the KMT, really.

Why should Tsai support them? just disown them and take away their passports.


#6

I think some of you guys missed the “acquitted” part of the story.

Forced movement to a third country is not cool, even if these guys are not angels.

And I wonder really how much this has to do with the upcoming transfer of power in Taiwan. Didn’t something similar happen–from the Philippines to the PRC–right in the midst of the Ma Ying-jeou honeymoon?

All in all: yuck.

Guy


#7

[quote=“afterspivak”]I think some of you guys missed the “acquitted” part of the story.

Forced movement to a third country is not cool, even if these guys are not angels.

And I wonder really how much this has to do with the upcoming transfer of power in Taiwan. Didn’t something similar happen–from the Philippines to the PRC–right in the midst of the Ma Ying-jeou honeymoon?

All in all: yuck.

Guy[/quote]

Acquitted by some court in Kenya. What does a bunch of Taiwanese do in Kenya with an office full of prepaid calling cards and a few dozen phones?
I saw some New Power Party speaker on TV ranting about the whole case. Well maybe better keep quiet about it and don’t make Taiwan look like some banana republic that wants to protect its overseas phone scammers… no sympathy there really.


#8

The issue is not scammer/not scammer. The issue is forced movement to a third country. If this does not chill you, then I wish you a good day sir.

Guy


#9

[quote=“afterspivak”]The issue is not scammer/not scammer. The issue is forced movement to a third country. If this does not chill you, then I wish you a good day sir.

Guy[/quote]

I second that.


#10

Agreed, the precedent it sets is that China can snatch any Taiwanese outside of Taiwan on any pretext by using the line “these are the Chinese we are looking for”.


#11

And it portends that they have allied countries on such a short leash that they can snap their fingers and violate human rights without a shrug. Seriously, they can say, “Jump!” and Kenya gonna say, “How high?” This isn’t gamesmanship, it’s flat-out bullying, and how disappointing is it to see the local reaction. I haven’t seen anybody (in the media) getting really pissed off. The newspapers say Taipei is “indignant.” Indignant enough to expel all Chinese liaisons from the island until they get their people back and an apology? Heh.


#12

A few thoughts:

  1. Ah, but you see, they deserve it. Obviously, they are bad apples, let them rot in China because Taiwan is so worried about human rights it does not apply the death penalty willy nilly. Taiwan is messy, democracy is doomed as it is disorganized and doe snot guarantee social order. China goes into Hong Kong and snatches booksellers who pissed it off, no biggie, they deserve it because they provocked it. It is their fault, they rebelled. So these guys? Obviously they did something to deserve this. Same difference.

  2. Which brings us to the now common line m -that will become even more common of a phrase/slogan as time goes on: “Tsai is not cooperating”. As with the Islands Row, the set is being staged for the comings and goings in the next months. Your government does not comply, you renegade, unfilial children, get spanked! Only we can save you from your own crafted doom! Unification is inevitable. It is an undisputed historical fact.

  3. A show of force, again, to set the stage for what is to come. Now they can accuse any Taiwanese businessperson of whatever, plunk them out, set them in a cozy Mainland cell… no biggie. They are also showing the world, but particularly Taiwanese, who’s the boss. And assuring loyalties. We can get to you anytime, anywhere.

  4. Timing: Panama papers, lots of leaks, unhappy customers. As you guys surmised, these fellows stmbled into something bigger than themselves. Plus there are many doors that will be closing in on Taiwan in future days.

Haven’t you noticed all the fires started while no one mentions the real problems inside Taiwan? We are being distracted with a parade of flim and flam.Meanwhile, assets are being hidden, money si being funneled, and the government machinery is being rigged to fail as soon as the next driver takes the wheel…


#13

Yes, but the second part of the issue is that it wasn’t actually China holding the guns. It was the Kenyans. Kenya is not some outpost of civilisation in a sea of barbarity. It’s still pretty much like the rest of Africa, plus or minus. The laws are as flexible as bubblegum. Stuff can be made to go away, or pop into existence, at the drop of a well-stuffed envelope of cash.

No doubt China was leaning heavily on Kenyan authorities to make it all happen, but I doubt they would go to so much trouble without good reason. I find it very hard to believe that they arranged this because the (alleged) criminals were Taiwanese. It’s not going to happen, I’m fairly sure, to the average Taiwanese tourist, or to Taiwanese businessmen engaged in legitimate business. China may still struggle with basic morality, but they’re fairly good at a cost-benefit analysis.

Absolutely true. But it’s only likely to stop when Kenya stops being Kenya. China isn’t going to stop being China. It’s not like similar things aren’t done by other countries, where they think they can get away with it.


#14

Obviously, this is all directed at Tsai and the DPP.

a clear message to accept that Taiwan is part of China, or suffer the consequences. Which are large, and inevitable. Tsai 's reaction will set the entire tone of her presidency, I think.

However, the rest of Asia is beginning to band together to stand up against the CCPricks over the issue of South China Sea (which is not the South Sea of China, just the Sea that is South of China… a very different nuance, and absolutely no sovereignty implied).


#15

Yeah, they’re not though, because they’re incapable of doing so. Most countries in S.E.Asia are banana republics too occupied with internal squabbling, or stealing whatever can be stolen, to actually band together over a common threat. China disrespects them precisely because they’re a bunch of losers. It really is a pity that ASEAN - or an equivalent organisation - can’t get its act together.


#16

It’s already been done with ethnic Chinese citizens of other countries. Yeah, I third the notion that we should all be concerned about this. Remember that in China, human rights lawyers, Christian pastors, and environmentalists are now considered enemies of the state.


#17

Especially as most of my family members are now Taiwanese…it is concerning. Fortunately they haven’t been able to get their tentacles too far into the island of Taiwan yet.

I was told by a colleague in China today that Taiwan is a part of China so it is easy for Chinese officials to get a visa to go to China. Meanwhile we werefrantically trying to get visas arranged for Chinese to visit Taiwan. Only Chinese could
Say that at the same time!


#18

disturbing.


#19

This says it all, doesn’t it? Don’t let the facts staring you in the face get in the way of an irredentist position. :thumbsdown:

Guy


#20

According to international law professor Julian Ku, China stands on pretty solid legal ground in this matter.

nytimes.com/2016/04/14/world … kenya.html?