Free admission to the National Palace Museum...but ARC holders excluded


#61

That means 1/23,000,000th of the sovereign says Taiwan is not a 1st world country.
There have been many instances were 1/23,000,000th of the sovereign (=0.00000435% of Taiwanese) told a foreigner to stop stealing Taiwanese women, claimed that foreigners cannot learn Chinese and to just go back home if he doesn’t like it. I am glad that the opinion of 0.00000435% of the population has no weight here.

Whether Taiwan is part of the 1st World is irrelevant however, what matters is whether Taiwan falls under the term developing country in the ICESCR or not. And while these two terms are related, it is easier to reject a hypothesis than to prove a hypothesis.

Taiwan has a Human Development Index (HDI) of 0.882, putting it in front of countries such as Spain (0.876 / 2014), Italy (0.873 / 2014) and just below Austria (0.885 / 2014) and Finland (0.883 / 2014). Taiwanese enjoy visa free access to 137 countries and territories, which means that the ROC passport is ranked 29th best in the world by the Henley & Partners 2016 Visa Restriction Index.

Yes there are problems in Taiwan in any aspect of life, society and government. But is Taiwan a developing country in the sense of the ICESCR? Definitely not.


#62

I agree that taxpayers deserve value for money and that being included in the household registration system should count for something.

That said, there is a logical argument in favor of this particular kind of discrimination: national heritage. Most people don’t call for citizenship to be assigned on the basis of taxation (how many people actually think “economic citizenship” a.k.a. selling passports to rich foreigners is a good thing, other than the people benefit directly from those schemes?). So, if every person (theoretically) is born with a certain citizenship, every person is born with the right to enjoy the heritage of his/her country of citizenship, and enjoyment of this right can take the form of e.g. reduced or free admission to a museum dedicated to said heritage.

This theory was once expressed on the Thai MFA’s website (can’t find it there now), with the proviso that by that country’s law the policy of dual pricing is limited to government funded tourist attractions, i.o.w. private museums, amusement parks etc. are not allowed to use (nationality based) dual pricing, to say nothing of restaurants, taxis, etc., though Thailand being very much a developing country, that law is rarely thought to exist in practice. Non-Thai Asians (including Chinese) have been known to benefit from the policy because proof of citizenship is rarely requested unless one looks “foreign”, which makes it a form of de facto racial discrimination.

If the NPM here follows its policy of checking ROC ID cards, then it comes down to three questions:
A) Is the free admission scheme a manifestation of the right to enjoy one’s national heritage?
B) Should household registration entitle one to share in the enjoyment of the community’s heritage, including national heritage?
C) Should the scope of the free admission scheme be expanded for other reasons (e.g. promoting tourism in Taiwan, promoting historical education, etc.)?

If you want to get serious about the discrimination angle, you can bring up ICESCR Art. 15 (the right to take part in cultural life etc.), in which “everyone” definitely means “everyone”, but on the other hand the prohibition of discrimination in Art. 2 covers merely “national origin” and not necessarily one’s current nationality. [strike]If free admission is considered an economic right rather than a cultural right, then it’s subject to the proviso in Art. 2 Par. 3 that permits economic discrimination against foreigners.[/strike][/quote]

I dunno. I get it in Thailand where Thais come up from the countryside almost as a pilgrimage and pay a tiny amount and are waived dress regulations to go to Wat Phra Keaw, for example, because it’s a holy site. But it also pisses me off that I have to pay twenty GBP to get into Westminster Abbey because it’s full of non-Anglican tourist wankers taking photos and has become a destination for waiguo wankers, not a church and a burial place. Britain charges EVERYONE, not just foreigners, yet I am not often extended this courtesy when travelling in a large part of Asia, because of these countries’ tradition of jingoistic exceptionalism.

A museum is not a religious place or a burial ground, it’s a building full of looted crap. Taiwan needs to grow up.


#63

Ermitrude, don’t be so cynic… you are atheist :smiley:

Regarding this topic… I have encountered feelings. On the one hand, I have an ARC and I understand that I’m not entitled to all the benefits that a national is, and that this is kinda normal. On the other hand, I pay taxes too. Either way, it’s not a black or white thing, it’s subjective, and there could be reasons for supporting it or against it.


#64

I’m not an atheist.


#65

Weird. You look like one. Just in case… Buddihsts usually are atheists, but I guess that if you were one, you would know that already.


#66

Weird. You look like one. Just in case… Buddihsts usually are atheists, but I guess that if you were one, you would know that already.[/quote]

It’s hard to be this beautiful without God by your side. :cactus:


#67

Weird. You look like one. Just in case… Buddihsts usually are atheists, but I guess that if you were one, you would know that already.[/quote]

It’s hard to be this beautiful without God by your side. :cactus:[/quote]
Don’t ask God for too much either…


#68

In many ways Taiwan is more advanced than others. Take for instance the coverage of the NHI.

Or that you can walk into a 7/11 island wide and pay your bills at 3am.

Try that in USA or UK… they would look at you like you were mad.


#69

In many ways Taiwan is more advanced than others. Take for instance the coverage of the NHI.

Or that you can walk into a 7/11 island wide and pay your bills at 3am.

Try that in USA or UK… they would look at you like you were mad.[/quote]

In many ways Taiwan is very old fashioned.

In the west you just go online and pay your bills online. Or pull out your credit card and order online.

Try that in Taiwan…they would look at you like you were mad.


#70

In many ways Taiwan is more advanced than others. Take for instance the coverage of the NHI.

Or that you can walk into a 7/11 island wide and pay your bills at 3am.

Try that in USA or UK… they would look at you like you were mad.[/quote]

In many ways Taiwan is very old fashioned.

In the west you just go online and pay your bills online. Or pull out your credit card and order online.

Try that in Taiwan…they would look at you like you were mad.[/quote]

Um, but you can pay bills online…


#71

Thebear

Yes you can but no one actually does it.
Same with ordering online, everyone prefers COD at 711
And don’t get me started about the requirement to update your bankbook regularly or risk the atm access getting cut

Not a big deal but it still surprises me how little change happens:)
That and the cash society. Hardly anyone takes credit cards because it cuts into their tax evasion.


#72

How is it racist or xenophobic.
Seems more like fake outrage.


#73

[quote=“dan2006”]Thebear

Yes you can but no one actually does it.
Same with ordering online, everyone prefers COD at 711
And don’t get me started about the requirement to update your bankbook regularly or risk the atm access getting cut

Not a big deal but it still surprises me how little change happens:)
That and the cash society. Hardly anyone takes credit cards because it cuts into their tax evasion.[/quote]

the bankbook update has at least been modified. it used to be an outrageous 20 transactions, its much more now.


#74

[quote=“the bear”][quote=“dan2006”]Thebear

Yes you can but no one actually does it.
Same with ordering online, everyone prefers COD at 711
And don’t get me started about the requirement to update your bankbook regularly or risk the atm access getting cut

Not a big deal but it still surprises me how little change happens:)
That and the cash society. Hardly anyone takes credit cards because it cuts into their tax evasion.[/quote]

the bankbook update has at least been modified. it used to be an outrageous 20 transactions, its much more now.[/quote]
I’ve updated my bank book no more than half a dozen times in the 6 years I’ve had the account. ATM access has never been cut.


#75

A complaint about dual pricing at Alishan:


(Scroll down to “Second-class citizens”.)


#76

So even alishan does it.
I’ve never gone to the palace museum even though I want to out of principle because of the foreigner fee and I guess the visit to alishan is also out.

Although I have heard that sometimes they give a discount to locals of the area, in which a foreigner from pingtung in alishan would obviously not qualify , but then neither would a Taiwanese from pingtung . wonder if it is a misunderstanding.


#77

A comment by a foreigner in TT today says the criterion is household registration in the Alishan area.

Those visiting Alishan pay unless they
have local household registration. I don’t pay because I live in
Alishan and have Alishan household registration.


#78

JIm is correct.

http://www.ali-nsa.net/user/Article.aspx?Lang=2&SNo=03002846


#79

But by household registration, do they mean Taiwanese household registration as foreigners can’t get that, even if we have an arc registered in that area. In other words, still discrimination against foreign residents.

And Jim is like an omnipresent being, in every comment section of every Taiwan newspaper. I’m so glad I can get a “real” Taiwanese viewpoint from him. :wink:


#80

Yes Jim always present, always vigilant.

Always quick to remind us that it is possible to become a Taiwanese, only have to sacrifice your granny to do it.