Gender studies are nonsense with zero scientific, rational or logic basis to them - The Gender Equality Paradox - Documentary NRK - 2011

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#93

sorry I mean the 1 day old. I didn’t really remember the age, I knew the babies were really “young” but didn’t want to exaggerate, hence the “several weeks”. You mentioned it and I knew it (although I haven’t read your post entirely, you didn’t want to watch my video, so you can’t complain). You mentioned it, but don’t say what it was about. And you try to make him look like a clown relating him to another TV clown. That dirty trick that didn’t work!


#94

I think he was able to speak Chinese after a head injury. He had had exposure to the language before the accident, but couldn’t speak it. He then moved to China because he could no longer speak English very well and he felt more Chinese. At least, I think that’s the story.


#95

Maybe I need to be less cautious on the bike… :ponder:


#96

You completely, totally misconstrued my comment about clothing. I did not in any sense suggest that men are born with an innate penchant for trousers and women for skirts, or that girls and boys prefer their clothing in pink and blue respectively.

I said that for any given culture, however remote from your own, you would be able to visually distinguish male from female clothing if set out side-by-side. You would be able to distinguish a sarong from a lungi or a kilt from a skirt; you’d be able to say confidently that that one is for men and that one is for women. Fashions may change across time and continents, but at any given time and place, male and female clothing differs in consistent ways so as to emphasize either masculinity or femininity.

As for the stuff about civil unions, you seem to be conflating the workings of the law - which is, obviously, a social construct - with what goes in in the privacy of people’s heads and bedrooms. The law may state that an interpersonal relationship with characteristics A, B and C shall henceforth be called “marriage”, and this may influence (to some extent) what people perceive as moral and right. It probably doesn’t have much effect on their more primal and private views about themselves (their gender and sexuality), their partners, or potential partners.

Up to a point. As with clothing, the roles for men and women within any given culture tend to be complementary and (usually) suited to the innate talents and desires of each. There are some cultures where men sit on their ass all day primping their hair, and women go out working. So yes, there’s a lot of leeway. The bell curves for men and women will overlap in multiple dimensions. Some cultures make more allowances for that than others. However, at no point in history has anybody actually asserted that:

  1. there is no difference at all between men and women apart from the obvious, ergo any individual, regardless of sex, can be shoehorned into any role;
  2. male gender roles are superior to female gender roles, and therefore all women should aspire to fit into male gender roles; if they do not, they are worthless human beings.

(2) is what bothers me. Those banging on about rights and opportunities will vehemently argue that this is a gross misrepresentation of the views, but it does seem to be the practical outcome: women are ridiculed for wanting to take care of their children, and praised if they want to be truck drivers.


#97

It was the first paragraph of my post, and I was telling people that’s the interesting part.

Anyway…

That wasn’t my impression of what you said, but it’s interesting. Can we read a study of it?

The first one is precisely what Lorenzen and Egeland say in the video (in 2011), so yes, people have said it.

As for the stuff about civil unions, you seem to be conflating the workings of the law - which is, obviously, a social construct - with what goes in in the privacy of people’s heads and bedrooms.

The law may state that an interpersonal relationship with characteristics A, B and C shall henceforth be called “marriage”, and this may influence (to some extent) what people perceive as moral and right. It probably doesn’t have much effect on their more primal and private views about themselves (their gender and sexuality), their partners, or potential partners.

Social custom is also a social construct. If two roommates live peacefully without having conjugal relations, biology may make it more or less difficult for them, but they still choose their roles based on social factors, and their neighbors, parents, etc. still accept or reject those roles based on social factors.


#98

Just wondering: anybody know the right-on sociological explanation for this particular phenomenon? “It’s the patriarchy innit” is not adequate.


#99

Another attempt to push women into careers they have no interest in.

I hope they realize this is bound to backfire.


#100

There are girls who are interested in computer science… or programming. Not a lot though, and most of them focuss on the Front End part… which should mean something…


#101

I agree there aren’t as many women in engineering especially in Taiwan but it is changing. I’m a female engineer and wasn’t forced, and even voted onto the company’s technical ladder by my peers. When I first started working here doing embedded software for projectors in 2000, I was frequently asked if there were many female engineers in the US. Large corporations usually have a better mix of people.
One place that I’m doing some IT consulting at is looking for a FE software engineer and they don’t care if you are a Martian as long as you are a good FE. The general manager is a guy from HK with an American passport, female software engineering manager, and the rest of the office is balance 50% men and 50% women.


#102

Sure, there are female engineers (software or even “real” engineers :D) and they can be much better than me at their jobs. My Front End engineer is female, although she’s too junior and I’d say that she’s not as logic as… me?

I don’t discriminate by gender when interviewing candidates. But numbers say that more males than females tend to opt for this type of technical jobs. You can say that there’s an increasing number of female engineers and I can argue that there are more and better paid jobs now in this profession than in many others, and still most female software engineers (developers actually) still see programming as a means of having some cool or even cute website set up. They are not attracted by the power of breaking down processes and data into entities, it’s more about the usability of the software (website in this case), which is a very important factor BTW.

Indeed, my FE engineer (developer) is more interested in the human-machine interaction, she and her team won some award for a stupid idea she (and they) had, and that’s one of the reasons why I hired her, so she can fill an important area of my current project.

This is BTW what the “sexist” ex-google guy was saying. Nothing crazy, nothing sexist, but he still got mobbed and fired.


#103

I wouldn’t generalize. Just this last weekend, I was discussing my manufacturing biz with a female friend and even she said I acted more like a man because if my work interests. I’ve never understood why some women want to stereotype other women. My friend really cannot understand why I enjoy product development and working with factories and developers. I know some amazing female engineers who can think like an ASIC and still be a great wife and mom. Here’s an example of a female techie. This lady is my hero! She rocks! https://www.adafruit.com/about

We need different people. If a woman wants to stay home with the kids, this is also a very admirable choice with many sacrifices. Society shouldn’t be telling us what we can and can’t do. When we do that to people, we make it harder for them.


#104

Generalizations and prejudices are natural mechanisms that have their use. The problem is to forget that a generalization is just that: a generalization.

And maybe she was right. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Are you generalizing or perhaps saying that that’s a women’s thing, hardwired in their brains? :stuck_out_tongue:

I think that those things are totally compatible. If you think that people like me or people who don’t like and don’t trust “gender studies” think that way, you got us wrong. We are talking about typical differences between men and women. And that’s all. If you are a woman that doesn’t mean you can’t drive trucks. If you can drive trucks it doesn’t mean you can’t be a lovely wife. Not necessarily :stuck_out_tongue:

Agreed.

Getting back to work now.


#105

I’m currently designing an optical projector. Would you be interested in some freelance work?


#106

Maybe? Let’s talk. :sunglasses:


#107

Agree to disagree on some points.


#108

I agree with you about the Google engineer firing @jesus80 . I don’t agree with everything he said but I agree with his right to say it.


#109

Just to know… did you read what he actually wrote? and if so, what exactly you disagree with?


#110

I did read it and I thought to myself “What in the hell do you work at Google and publish this?” I agree with most points but he has excluded a few things that he may not be able to see due to his own bias. Where I come from, white men tend to hire or give the good assignments to white men not because they are trying to discriminate but because it’s easier for them to relate. I have specific examples. Diversity is a strength to me because different viewpoints make for a comprehensive solution. Even my father who is also an engineer gave me the advice when I entered to workforce to never make a copy or a cup of coffee for a man or I would be treated as less than equal. I’ve always had to work twice as hard to get the good assignments because I wasn’t on the golf course with the boss. It is much better today than it was at that time. Engaging and coaching people is a good use of time and you never know what the impact will be years down the road.


#111

I agree with this.

As for the problems you point out, I think that this ex google guy was aware of the reasons for positive discrimination but was denouncing something else. But I know what you mean.


#112

This is 100% correct. The problem is that in many work places (media, news, social network etc etc) it’s not diversity of viewpoints that is promoted. In some places “diversity” means “not men”, in others diversity means “not white”, or “non heterosexual” etc etc. Just an example from the UK:

The engineer from Google wrote an email with plenty of good points, but in any organization like Google, Facebook or similar it’s basically like asking to be fired.