Hard to find work in Taiwan


#41

[quote=“madhawan”]Having gone through all the comments made on this post, I would love to take the opportunity to share my experience in front of everyone here (specifically, the OP). Some initial background, been in Taiwan for nearly 5 years, came here for my masters in Computer Science and after graduating, I started working.

I have been working for close to 3 years in Taiwan and fortunately, My experience in the 2 companies I have worked has been positive and my current job is in a well-known organisation located near the science park in Hsinchu.

I am a software engineer, specifically Mobile developer who works on iOS/Android platform. My first company was in New Taipei city and honestly, I do admit to the fact that I undercut myself on the salary front (I was paid 42k ). However looking at the bright side of it, in the 1.5 years there I never remember a day when I worked over 9 hours. It was a fixed 9-6 job and often I would myself being ideal with nothing to do even before 6.
Let’s start with the bad, The first thing which comes to me is that Taiwanese companies(especially small petty ones) lack a global vision (國際觀) and fail to do things with proper planning, Most things are haphazard with virtually no thought about process or a well-defined development model (especially for software). This leads to a lot of trouble, if not in the short term then definitely in the long run. As a software developer, I remember making changes to my app nearly 3-4 times a day for the demo next day. Another thing which always messes up my mind is that how prone Taiwanese are to saying “Yes” and accepting all kind of bullshit thrown to them. However, being the only 老外 , My boss never tried that on me knowing I would never take it.

The good things, I learned a lot. My Chinese level improved loads- I mean loads, from very basic to nearly fluent. I participated in exhibitions all over Asia, met with various clients and made some nice business relationships. Further, My job never affected my personal life since I never needed to work overtime or on the weekends. In fact during my second year, my company even paid for my air ticket back to my home country. And, I got a decent 年終 (2 months). More importantly, working in a small Taiwanese company with some unique/niche product got me a chance to move to a better workplace.

My current workplace is absolutely nothing to what I have read and seen from the people here. Again, I work from 9 to 6 and in case I need to work overtime, I get paid extra. My basic salary is 60,000 nt with nearly a 2 months bonus (not super high, but more than enough for a single person). Everything is in order here with well-established rules and nothing seems haphazard. They helped me apply the work permit and made sure I knew of every rule and regulation, this included knowing my rights as well. I get 14 days off annually, twice the number of most Taiwanese companies.
The bad- well, again I wish there was more planning, our products had concrete specification and everything was done within a well-defined scope. However, these problems are much more exclusive to software as compared to the problems mention above by others.
In my 3 years of work experience, never have I been paid late, never been made to work overtime without overtime pay, never lied or tricked about my salary/bonus. Everything has been transparent, be it joining or leaving, I never felt I was tricked or cheated. In these 3 years, I have learned quite a bit which apart from software development also include sales skills and language skills.

To sum it up, My working experience has been positive apart from some points which arguably you could have in every workplace. There is no job where you could say that you ain’t got nothing wrong, I have learned a lot of things and the problems which I have seen have rather helped me broaden my vision. So, rather than painting everyone with the same brush, I would rather say there are indeed good companies in Taiwan (might be difficult to find and get into) and rather than getting disheartened by others, give your best shot. Try 104,1111,Linkedin (I found my current job using Linkedin ) and go to the individual company’s website, send your resume directly to the HR. Chinese skill+related experience can work wonders for you!! You know your strengths !! 加油 不要放棄了[/quote]

Thank you madhawan !

Just gotta grit my teeth and push it on !

Shall step it a notch !


#42

[quote=“madhawan”][quote=“headhonchoII”]I also had some great experiences at work and learned a lot…initially. In fact I enjoyed my time working for those small companies quite a lot more than now.

The problem…was the low pay and lack of opportunity for promotion and training/professional education.

I was getting the same pay 60k/mth out of the block in Taiwan in a business job 15 years ago. That’s a huge issue right there. Where do go from these low starting points…70k/mth…80k/mth…the base rate is too low so you lose money over the years even though you feel like you are getting promoted and salary raise.
Then the chance to learn how more ‘international’ companies work might be a bit limited here, how they plan our business strategies or as in the case above …software development. I’ve had to adapt my freewheeling ways learnt in Taiwan to the more rigorous nature and planning methodology of western companies.
I think working in Taiwan may indeed be a good launching point for the entrepreneurial minded who wants to learn a bit of everything and then jump out and do their own thing.[/quote]

I absolutely second you when you say this. Even though my experience luckily has been positive, but by no way and I again highlight, BY NO WAY can I imagine staying forever or making my career entirely based in Taiwan. What I am saying is that, Taiwan has got decent opportunities which you need to go and grab if you really wanna work here. I agree with a lot of things such as internalization is still lacking in Taiwan, practices followed here are old and yes, Personal development can be restricted. I would myself personally love to start something of my own or probably look to go back to my home country. The issue with me is not just salary, The issue is self-development and knowledge/skill enrichment. However, Taiwan isn’t the worst place in the world to work, There are crazy companies here , so are everywhere. Like everyone mentioned, there are also good bosses/managers.

My point was just to point the true fact to the OP and not just let him become all cynical/gloomy over the idea of working here since the response he got were extremely critical and disapproving. Good luck to the OP[/quote]

Thanks madhawan !
Well, can’t say that I’m all cynical/gloomy about it though.
I hope my experience will be a good one, just got a interview via internet way for a project manager role.
Heh !


#43

Guys, just to side track a little !

Would you guys pay to watch good quality of football (not the american kind) on cable like Ligue 1, Serie A, La Liga, BPL, UEFA Champions League and Europa League ?


#44

If you are not in Taiwan, then forget it!


#45

A quick update on my status !

Got a few interviews over Skype for a few companies in Taiwan !

Things are looking promising on my end over here.


#46

[quote=“gaoxingdcf”]A quick update on my status !

Got a few interviews over Skype for a few companies in Taiwan !

Things are looking promising on my end over here.[/quote]

I’m happy for you! Good luck on the remaining process!


#47

I’d summarize the three main work culture deficiencies here as:

  1. Lack of high level problem solving skills
  2. Lack of high level organizational skills
  3. Poor communication skills

When I first started banging up against these deficiencies years ago as a foreign customer, then as an employee of a high tech, old school Taiwanese company, they used to get me down. Then one day the light went on and I realized they were actually a massive opportunity. That was the day I decided to start my own business and I never looked back. Now when my colleagues complain about them I remind them that’s why we’re here and why we have such good opportunities.

As a footnote I have to say I’m seeing some surprising developments among my suppliers. They’re beginning to adhere to a strict 9-5 workday and all overtime is now paid. It’s encouraging to see some progress.


#48

[quote=“Winston Smith”]I’d summarize the three main work culture deficiencies here as:

  1. Lack of high level problem solving skills
  2. Lack of high level organizational skills
  3. Poor communication skills

When I first started banging up against these deficiencies years ago as a foreign customer, then as an employee of a high tech, old school Taiwanese company, they used to get me down. Then one day the light went on and I realized they were actually a massive opportunity. That was the day I decided to start my own business and I never looked back. Now when my colleagues complain about them I remind them that’s why we’re here and why we have such good opportunities.

As a footnote I have to say I’m seeing some surprising developments among my suppliers. They’re beginning to adhere to a strict 9-5 workday and all overtime is now paid. It’s encouraging to see some progress.[/quote]

Some complain about the difficulties. Others see them as opportunities. Well done, Winston! :bravo:
Care to share what business is yours?


#49

Hi Guys,

I’m an Australian, have been learning Chinese for about a year and a half quite casually and have learned it quite quick, thinking of going to China to study Chinese for about 6 months and then sit the HSK and apply for a Hanban scholarship. After getting the Hanban scholarship the plan is to study Chinese for a further year, and then study a two year professional vocation qualification in Radiography, work for 2 years, and then go back to my home country to upgrade my qualification to a degree with 1 year of further study.
The only hitch will be getting a work permit as I don’t have a degree. And the conversion degree in my country requires 2 years of clinical experience.
Would a 2-year qualification from China in Radiography + a TEFL certificate (similar to the 2 year Associate’s Degree + TEFL certificate pathway) be sufficient to gain a work permit? Would it be possible to find work in Taiwan as a radiographer with a 2 year qualification? By then my Mandarin would be very fluent.

Thanks!


#50

Doubt you could find medical work in Taiwan as there are few foreigners here plus you would surely have to pass some local exams.
Are you overseas chinese, if so will help a bit. Sad but true.


#51

[quote=“林镇浦”]Hi Guys,

I’m an Australian, have been learning Chinese for about a year and a half quite casually and have learned it quite quick, thinking of going to China to study Chinese for about 6 months and then sit the HSK and apply for a Hanban scholarship. After getting the Hanban scholarship the plan is to study Chinese for a further year, and then study a two year professional vocation qualification in Radiography, work for 2 years, and then go back to my home country to upgrade my qualification to a degree with 1 year of further study.
The only hitch will be getting a work permit as I don’t have a degree. And the conversion degree in my country requires 2 years of clinical experience.
Would a 2-year qualification from China in Radiography + a TEFL certificate (similar to the 2 year Associate’s Degree + TEFL certificate pathway) be sufficient to gain a work permit? Would it be possible to find work in Taiwan as a radiographer with a 2 year qualification? By then my Mandarin would be very fluent.

Thanks![/quote]

Hi 林镇浦,

I don’t have any firsthand knowledge of your specific situation, and I’m not licensed to practice law here, so this is definitely not legal advice. I’m just pasting text here that appears to me as if it might apply to your situation. The stuff below is essentially the same stuff that I’ve pasted elsewhere on the board, but I’ve modified it a little:

From the [color=#000080]Employment Services Act[/color], in pertinent part:

[quote]Article [color=#000080]46[/color]. Unless otherwise provided for in the present Act, the work [color=#000080]a Foreign Worker[/color] may be employed to engage in within the territory of the Republic of China [color=#000080]is limited to the following[/color]:

[color=#000080]1[/color]. [color=#000080]Specialized or technical work[/color]. . . .[/quote]
wda.gov.tw/en/home.jsp?page … 1304190012

From “[color=#000080]Qualifications and Criteria Standards[/color] for foreigners undertaking the jobs specified under Article [color=#000080]46.1.1[/color] to 46.1.6 of the Employment Service Act,” in pertinent part:

[quote]Article 4. [color=#000080]“Specialized or technical work”[/color] mentioned in Article [color=#000080]46.1.1[/color] of this Act refers to the following work that requires specialized knowledge, expertise, or techniques for which a foreigner is hired to perform:

. . .

[color=#000080]7. Practice of technicians;
8. Health care;[/color]

. . .

15.[color=#000080] Other work[/color] designated as per the joint consultation of the [color=#000080]central governing authority and the central competent authorities[/color].[/quote]

law.moj.gov.tw/eng/LawClass/LawA … e=N0090031

Again, from the Qualifications and Criteria Standards, the same document as the one quoted immediately above:

[quote]Article 5 Other than meeting with other criteria specified in the Standards, foreign employees have to acquire one of the following qualifications before undertaking the jobs/assignments specified here above:

  1. [color=#000080]Acquire certificates or operation qualifications through the procedures specified in the Examinations of Specific Profession and Technician Guidelines.[/color]
  2. Acquire credentials of Master degree or above from universities in the ROC or in foreign countries or acquire Bachelor degree and with more than two years working experiences in the specific field.
  3. Expatriates to the ROC that have been employed in multi-national companies for more than one year.
  4. Specialists who have been trained professionally or self-taught in the specific field and have more than five years experiences in related skills and have demonstrated outstanding performances.[/quote]

From Examinations for Professional and Technical Personnel in Taiwan(ROC):

[quote]I: Types of Professional and Technical Examinations

The various on[e]s covered by the Act have varied over time in step with changes in the social environment, but amendments dating from October, 2003 define the occupations currently under its purview as:

[color=#000080]9. Medical radiation technologists[/color] dietitians, physical therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapy technicians, occupational therapy technicians;

. . .

[color=#000080]14. Other professional and technical personnel[/color] eligible to practice their occupations only after being examined and certificated in accordance with pertinent regulations.

. . .

In all, there are 101 categories of examination.

. . .

[color=#000080]IV: Foreign Nationals taking Examinations for Professionals and Technical Personnel [/color]
Under Article 24 of the Act:

[color=#000080]1.Foreign nationals who wish to exercise a profession or technical occupation in the R.O.C. must pass the stipulated examinations[/color], and obtain the necessary licenses and approval from the competent authority. [color=#000080]Other laws may also apply. [/color]
2.The categories of P/T examinations that may be taken by foreign nationals are determined by the Examination Yuan. [color=#000080]At present, the examinations open to foreigners include[/color] those for lawyers, accountants, architects, all engineers, physicians, doctors of Chinese Medicine, dentists, pharmacists, [color=#000080]medical technologists[/color], nurses, midwives, clinical psychologists, consulting psychologists, respiratory therapists, veterinarians, real estate appraisers, real estate brokers, insurance agents, tour guides.
3.The regulations governing Professional and Technical Examinations apply mutatis mutandis to foreign nationals with regard to candidate qualifications, test subjects, exemptions, methods of examination, physical examinations, calculation of test scores, and qualification criteria.
4.Foreign nationals in possession of certificates of qualification issued by their home governments may, upon approval by the pertinent agency in Taiwan, sit P/T examinations in the equivalent discipline in Taiwan.
[color=#000080]5.Foreign nationals taking Professional and Technical examinations must answer the test questions in the Mandarin Chinese language, except where other laws stipulate otherwise. [/color]
6.Foreign nationals taking Physicians’ examinations who possess an equivalent license issued by a foreign government must be willing to serve in areas of scarce medical resources. They may be required to take oral or on-site examinations in addition to the written examinations. If necessary, the written examination may be taken in English.

In total, there are some 63 disciplines of Professional and Technical examinations open to foreign nationals.[/quote]

wwwc.moex.gov.tw/english/content … enu_id=509

headhonchoII is experienced in the medical and scientific fields, so he might have more information about the employment situation in those fields, if you can get it out of him. :slight_smile:

yyy, Feiren, Omniloquacious, and some others may have legal and other kinds of information.

I hope this helps, or at least does no harm.

Charlie Jack


#52

Thanks, that’s very good information. I hadn’t come across those websites.
I’ll try sending headhonchall a pm.
The information thus far so indicates that foreigners can work in the R.O.C. in those fields but it remains to be seen if one could get a work permit through a hospital or clinic with a 2 year diploma/certificate but no Bachelor’s.
Whereas the P.R.O.C. is no Bachelor’s, no working rights across the board except in some exceptional circumstances.
I don’t think I want to live and work in Taiwan long term, just to get the 2 years clinical experience, return home to upgrade to a Bachelor’s then go back to China to live and work.


#53

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Doubt you could find medical work in Taiwan as there are few foreigners here plus you would surely have to pass some local exams.
Are you overseas chinese, if so will help a bit. Sad but true.[/quote]
Really? That’s surprising. I would have thought that in Taiwan the most important thing is qualification and experience. Or is it like Japan where they don’t trust foreigners to work in the health industry?

Passing the local exams should be no problem if I did my initial qualification in China in a Chinese medium course, which is the plan.
I’m not overseas Chinese no. I’m very caucasian.

Perhaps the UAE could be my ticket to get 2 years clinical experience? They seem very open to inviting foreigners to do medical work there. My top preference of course would be working in China or Taiwan because I want Chinese-language experience. But as everyone here is probably aware, the requirement for working rights is a Bachelor’s Degree + 2 years work experience (hopefully not necessarily in that order). In Taiwan it is possible to get working rights with a 2 year college diploma/associates degree (essentially quite similar) + a TEFL certificate - although I would think that in my case instead of a TEFL certificate it would be a certificate of examination (passed) in medical imaging technology in Taiwan.

It would help if I put my motivation for doing this. My wife is middle-aged Chinese (naturalized Japanese), I’m quite a lot younger, and she’s not qualified to work in any English speaking country. I can pretty much forget about getting a job as a radiographer in Japan as at this moment I don’t speak a lick of Japanese and I would have to be either very highly qualified (some years down the track yet) or extremely lucky.

So it is the Mandarin Chinese-speaking countries that I’m looking at now, more specifically Taiwan or China as I feel in those countries one can more easily make a living in the early stages of their career vs Singapore. As for Malaysia I’m not sure, have not seriously looked into it.


#54

I don’t have any specific experience in licensed medical practice area so I wouldn’t be right person to ask.
I don’t want to put you off from trying to get a job if you have the qualifications to do so, by all means try.
some of the hospitals in Taiwan were founded by Caucasians, so in some cases it might hinder, in others they may be more open Minded. There are some international medical centers and they might be more open minded. Don’t know till you try I guess. Taiwan does have medical schools training many foreign nationals every year but I never encounter any here after graduation.


#55

[quote=“headhonchoII”]I don’t have any specific experience in licensed medical practice area so I wouldn’t be right person to ask.
I don’t want to put you off from trying to get a job if you have the qualifications to do so, by all means try.
some of the hospitals in Taiwan were founded by Caucasians, so in some cases it might hinder, in others they may be more open Minded. There are some international medical centers and they might be more open minded. Don’t know till you try I guess. Taiwan does have medical schools training many foreign nationals every year but I never encounter any here after graduation.[/quote]
They go there for the cheaper tuition and easier entrance than their home country’s highly competitive universities I guess and then go back to their home country to practice.


#56

Many are from Taiwan ally countries, not famous for
having high incomes and good health systems. Wouldn’t more stick around if they are familiar with the local system?
(Caveat- they probably learn thru English thus creating very large barrier)


#57

Eh, actually, the deal is for them to get the training here in Taiwan and then return with that knowledge to pass it on in their home countries. An example of these programs is the one on liver transplants at that fampous Southern Hospital which at this moment I can’t recall the name. Hundreds come to be trained in the techniques, as it is way too expnesive to get that specialty in our lands.

As with everything else, the problem for any doctor trained abroad and trying to practice here is taking the tests to get the license. Mostly, I know a bunch of taiwanese who have taken the test yearly for over a decade… might finally pass. Those are Taiwanese who were born abroad, go to college abroad and then make a specialty here o try to take the tests to work here. Even when they have their college degrees from taiwna, taking the test is harder for anyone who has not been through the system. It is hard even for those in the system. So I would say that is the major hurdle/discouragement to work in this field. And the test is not in English, though you have to get a certain GEPT score or something else to prove your competence in English -until recently, all records in hospitals were kept/taken in English.

The Western doctors working in Taiwan can be counted with one hand. I knew one, he’s retired now.


#58

[quote=“Icon”]Eh, actually, the deal is for them to get the training here in Taiwan and then return with that knowledge to pass it on in their home countries. An example of these programs is the one on liver transplants at that fampous Southern Hospital which at this moment I can’t recall the name. Hundreds come to be trained in the techniques, as it is way too expnesive to get that specialty in our lands.

As with everything else, the problem for any doctor trained abroad and trying to practice here is taking the tests to get the license. Mostly, I know a bunch of taiwanese who have taken the test yearly for over a decade… might finally pass. Those are Taiwanese who were born abroad, go to college abroad and then make a specialty here o try to take the tests to work here. Even when they have their college degrees from taiwna, taking the test is harder for anyone who has not been through the system. It is hard even for those in the system. So I would say that is the major hurdle/discouragement to work in this field. And the test is not in English, though you have to get a certain GEPT score or something else to prove your competence in English -until recently, all records in hospitals were kept/taken in English.

The Western doctors working in Taiwan can be counted with one hand. I knew one, he’s retired now.[/quote]
Well that’s for doctors. What about the tests for non-doctors in medical fields, eg medical radiation technologists? I imagine that the tests, although surely in Chinese, would not be as hard to pass.


#59

Eh, based on Confucian values, they will be near impossible to pass without years of training to take the tests, not the job itself.


#60

Talking about different points of view, I think I’d like to refocus my job search. In the past, I just opened the newspaper, picked an ad, sent my stuff and voila, interview and Bob’s your uncle. Those wer ethe Golden Days when finding a job was not hard. :grandpa:

In the Internet era, 1111 is really not cutting it for me. I am told “networking” through Linked is the thing now -great, let everyone from classmates to former employers and coworkers, down to haters and gossip broadcasting machines know I am looking for a job, oh joy.

The university has some kind of link with headhunters and I still have to check that out.

I have lowered my expectations and salary requirements to the very core. I have six mouths to feed and that is the bottom line. I think part of the problem is precisely that I am open to anything and it does not come up very well on interviews/applications. Enthusiasm and passion are not filling my heart at this moment.

Sigh.