Having Second Thoughts On Taipei

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

I arrived in Taipei a few days ago from Thailand to start my job hunt from ground level. The last few days I’ve spent a lot of time just walking around, taking in the sites like I do whenever I hit a new city.

Now, I knew Taipei would be a big city and might not be the experience I was looking for. After a few days here I think I’ve confirmed that for myself. Taipei feels like any other large city in America. I was born and raised in Chicago and as time has moved on so have I further from large cities and to more rural communities.

So I think I’ll be focusing my job search elsewhere in Taiwan. Can anybody give me a little advice from personal experience concerning other city options for teaching? Maybe you’re teaching there now or have in the past.

Ok, you’re about to ask what the heck am I looking for, right? Well maybe a medium sized city, less congested than Taipei, where I could earn a decent living but be able to get out of dodge quickly for some hiking or mountain biking on the weekends. I believe Tainan, Taichung, and Kaohsiung could be reasonable options? I’ve recently heard a bit about Hualien but more as a tourist destination.

Anybody ever been to Chiang Mai in Thailand? I would teach there in a heartbeat if the wages weren’t so low. I do need to earn some money to pay back the Guido’s at Citibank, Chase, et al. Well, I did take the money to begin with I guess. :unamused:

Thanks in advance.

2

Hualien is nice, but there is very little work to be found there these days. I lived there for a year a couple of years ago, and recently went back. Many of my friends there are stuggling to string together enough hours to make it pay.

3

Stay in Taipei but live in the suburbs like Muzha, or Neihu, or Tienmu, or Bitan (at the end of the Xidian MRT line). Here in Muzha I can be in the mountains in 5 minutes and on secluded trails that wind for 25km to the east in 10 minutes. I can also be downtown in 20-30 minutes. I can drive to myriad other natural spots, including places I can swim in fresh clean rivers, in 30 minutes.

The Formosan Fat Tire guys (a mountain biking club) have their headquarters out here and rave about the biking. In addition, there is good basic riding on the mountain roads and on the dike. In fact, taipei has almost 100km of biking paths built up beside the rivers. No other city in the country has anything like that.

Taipei has the great Taipei Day Trips books which provide clear guides to getting to the mountains around town. And of course there is the Forumosan Hiking Club led by yours truly. Check out our thread in the Events forum. And join us this Sunday for our trip to Wulai (30 minutes from Taipei) where we will walk part of a 20km long trail to our favorite natural swimming pool.

I suggest you take the MRT out to Muzha Zoo and see just how mountainous it is. Also take it out to Hongshulin and walk to Danshui. Or go to Shilin and catch the red bus 5, or minibus 15 to Yangmingshan National Park. You do know that the northern quarter of the city is all national park don’t you? If you can get to the top of Taipei 101 you will also get a pretty clear idea of just how much hiking and biking is available at your doorstep in this city.

4

I live in Tainan, and I like it, although has its ups and downs like most places.

For me, the two biggest upsides of life down south compared to Taipei are the cheaper cost of living (esp. renting a place and eating out) and the largely sunny weather. Southerners are also proud of their straighforward friendliness and I can’t argue with that.

Whenever I go to Taipei and see all the beautiful fashionable people I get the ‘bright eyed big city’ feeling, and realise that I have become somewhat of a hick living down here. Tainan is a pretty small city, with a laid back (some would say small-town) feel to it. I like the fact that it’s easy to get your bearings, but obviously don’t expect nightlife comparable to Taipei. Also, as as been mentioned, it can’t compete with N. Taipei suburbs for closeness to nature. I don’t actually teach here but I don’t think it’s hard to find teaching work.

I spent a while in Chiang Mai a few years back (eyes mist up), but I wouldn’t like to make any kind of comparison between there and here. If you love Thailand, I wouldn’t recommend trying to look for the same feeling here in Taiwan. I like Taiwan, but in a very different way.

If you have the resources, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to spend a few days travelling down here, get a feel for Taichung, Tainan, Kaohsiung etc. Even though you could say that the average scene in urban Taiwan could belong to any city on the island (for the most part true), the cities definitely do have their individual characters. In my opinion, Kaohsiung has the rough-and-ready feel of a booming industrial city, and makes Tainan seem pretty sleepy. However, I am not planning to live there anytime soon. But I’ll leave comments on Kaohsiung to someone more qualified to talk about it than me.

Wherever you choose, I wish you the best. :sunglasses:

5

F B: I can echo everything that Muzha Man said about Muzha, I live here too, and it’s great.

MM: When you say “part”, how much do you mean? Will this hike collapse a less seasoned hiker like myself? I’d like to get in on some of this here hiking. I’d like to hit some of the waterholes too.

6

[quote=“Josefus”]F B: I can echo everything that Muzha Man said about Muzha, I live here too, and it’s great.

MM: When you say “part”, how much do you mean? Will this hike collapse a less seasoned hiker like myself? I’d like to get in on some of this here hiking. I’d like to hit some of the waterholes too.[/quote]

I mean a very small part. It’s about an hour to the swimming hole on a gentle, mostly flat trail. Your granny could do it, honestly.

After last weeks epic, we all want something light and fun. That said, we will do the entire trail later in the fall when the weather is cooler.

7

Hualian is nice. Work is sparse. Maybe work for Hess and get a guaranteed pay. They don’t pay too bad nowadays. You’ll get paid by the hour (560). Make sure of your hours and the pay-by-the-hour thing. Big enough city but less people per capita. I struggled there but I was working illegally. You can get privates through the right connections. If you’re getting at least 25 hrs/wk then you’re doing ok. Any extra work is a bonus in Hualian. Don’t go there for 20 hrs though. Easy goin’ place for sure. And mountains and ocean. And nice people for East Taiwan. Clean mom n’ pop restaurants. Beautiful women. Have a for sure school though. I never worked for Hess and there’s lot said about their curriculum, etc. But it might be ok. Actually, let me know if you do it. I’m in Korea and willing to take less money for a year just to go back and experience Hualian again. Cream of the crop that place is. Seriously.

8

I would recommend ANY place that is not Taipei or north of Taipei. That place is guaranteed to have rain nearly 300 days per year and you rarely see sunshine, either. I lived there for 8 months, quit my good job and moved back to my 8-year home of Tainan.

The south has a “subtropical climate”–roughly equal to that of Florida in the US. How strange it is that Tainan is on the same latitude as Havana, Cuba, and Taipei is on the same latitude as Miami, FL. However, Taipei’s weather is more like London, only hotter.

Biking in the south is excellent. All the twisties you can imagine and only a few hours up to 2722m above sea level–Ya Ko. there is always a sea of clouds below. Gorgeous.

Plus, renting a Taipei apartment is very expensive. I wouldn’t give you NT$50 for the whole city.

9

[quote=“coolingtower”]I would recommend ANY place that is not Taipei or north of Taipei. That place is guaranteed to have rain nearly 300 days per year and you rarely see sunshine, either. I lived there for 8 months, quit my good job and moved back to my 8-year home of Tainan.

The south has a “subtropical climate”–roughly equal to that of Florida in the US. How strange it is that Tainan is on the same latitude as Havana, Cuba, and Taipei is on the same latitude as Miami, FL. However, Taipei’s weather is more like London, only hotter.

Biking in the south is excellent. All the twisties you can imagine and only a few hours up to 2722m above sea level–Ya Ko. there is always a sea of clouds below. Gorgeous.

Plus, renting a Taipei apartment is very expensive. I wouldn’t give you NT$50 for the whole city.[/quote] I believe I-lan gets more rainfall than Taipei. for. The good days and scenery make up for that though. Other than that I agree with your post but I’ve never lived in Taipei.

Flash Basbo, I-lan may offer what you seem to be looking for.

10

Thanks for the great info all. Hulian and Yilan sound very cool to me but maybe too small for a fresh off the plane noob. Once I feel comfortable with the language here they would be good choices.

Mucha Man - Great ideas. Taipei has everything going for it. Very cool city. Muzha will be the first place I look if I want to be in Taipei.
I may choose to live here in the future but I’m pretty well convinced that it’s ‘Green Acres’ for me. I’d rather live in and around a medium sized city for now. Thanks for the hiking offer.

haribo - The more I look into it I think Tainan might be the place for me. As I read your description I kept thinking ‘yep that’s what I want for now.’ Maybe a good choice for my first year. Everything else I’ve read about the city seems to fit my critiera. So it’s off to Tainan!

Can you or anybody else here recommend a good hostel in Tainan?

Thanks again folks! :notworthy:

11

Taizhong!!!

Weather’s better, its doable, and way more relaxed.

You can get out into the country easily enough, or live there and commute in.

But watch riding a bike!

HG

12

I’d second Taichung. Nice city, good lay out (all praise the legal left turn, almost an impossibility in Taipei) and less rain. :sunglasses:

13

I like Tainan and it definitely has a nice small city feel to it. I would probably live there for a while if I wasn’t married and set up in Taipei. But I can’t see how it is a green acres.

Still you are within an hour or two of some fabulous areas. The ride from Meinong toward Liugui and then down to Shanping and Tengchih Forest Reserves and Maolin National Park is superb. Of course heading up along the cross island highway is amazing too.

The area around Tzengwen Reservoir is gorgeous, as is Guanziling. Heck even the Moon World area is pretty cool and that’s only a 30-40 drive out of town. Check out the museum in Tsochen. Real Taiwanese dinosaurs!

Hmm, maybe all this is what you mean by green acres. For weekend jaunts, Tainan is definitely well located.

14

[quote=“Muzha Man”]
Hmm, maybe all this is what you mean by green acres. For weekend jaunts, Tainan is definitely well located.[/quote]
maggiore.net/greenacres/gatheme.asp

I guess I was just thinking about the theme to the old American TV show ‘Green Acres.’ I realize moving to Tainan may just be trading a huge city for a large city and not the countryside but I’m figuring I’d be closer to less populated areas in the southern part of the island. Maybe a quicker trip to the countryside.

Now, the operative word is ‘figuring’ since I know very little about Taiwan. Your national park descriptions sound very interesting though. Those are the type of places I’d like to ride to on the weekends if possible.

Taichung is another city I may visit if Tainan doesn’t make a good impression. Ultimately I just have to choose someplace to get a job, eat food and live life. I’m a positive person and sure that I can be happy anywhere I land. It’s all the same in the end. I’m just checking out a few options before I make a final choice.

15

As you should. I hope you find what you want.

16

[quote=“Muzha Man”]
I like Tainan and it definitely has a nice small city feel to it. I would probably live there for a while if I wasn’t married and set up in Taipei. But I can’t see how it is a green acres.

Still you are within an hour or two of some fabulous areas. The ride from Meinong toward Liugui and then down to Shanping and Tengchih Forest Reserves and Maolin National Park is superb. Of course heading up along the cross island highway is amazing too.

The area around Tzengwen Reservoir is gorgeous, as is Guanziling. Heck even the Moon World area is pretty cool and that’s only a 30-40 drive out of town. Check out the museum in Tsochen. Real Taiwanese dinosaurs!

Hmm, maybe all this is what you mean by green acres. For weekend jaunts, Tainan is definitely well located.[/quote]

If you’re armed with a motorcycle and camera, I can’t imagine any better advice than what Mucha Man has suggested. Once you exhaust Mucha Man’s suggestions, I can offer some maybe more “fringe” trips for you. The riding, beauty, weather, and location can’t be beat.

I did a really nerdy statistical analysis on rainfall data I downloaded from the Central Weather Bureau–dating back to 1896. Tainan averages about 2000mm of rain per year, in very heavy summer bursts mostly. Taipei averages about 3400mm of rain per year, with at least some measureable rain almost 300 days per year.

Tainan is physically small. You can get nearly anywhere, usually within 20 minutes–(depending on the situation, of course). Tainan has a population of 720,000, but can still support 2 B&Q stores, 2 RT-Marts, 2 Carrefours, Focus Department store, the British Tesco hypermart, one Geant, Far Eastern Department store (2 locations), and TWO Mitsukoshi outlets–one of which is the physically biggest Mitsukoshi store on earth. I am not a shopping freak by any means, I’m just trying to use this as a measuring stick to help you realize that Tainan City is not “countryside”. Leaving Taipei to try to find “countryside” takes a while. In Tainan, the change is more drastic–40 minutes in the right direction and you may not be hearing traffic anymore, but wind, crickets, waves, locusts, birds, etc.

I think I already mentioned my 8-month-stay in Taipei. Never mind that. One thing I found was that the “Taipei version” of many chain stores, such as CD/DVD places and computer stores seemed to be much smaller and had less things than the Tainan stores. SunFar 3C is an example (computer store). The one in front of the train station is like only the first floor of the Tainan store, crammed into a narrow 3F building. The Tainan store has two huge floors and then a third floor mostly for computer repair, etc. The Da Zhong CD/DVD store seems to have the same phenomenon. (VERY STRANGE: The Sunfar 3C computer store in Tainan always smells like an aquarium or fish tank when you walk in–the same store in Taipei even smelled the same!!! This is not like any other computer store. WHAT is going on here?)

17

The women might be nicer and easier-going in Taipei. Experience in a whole might be better (probably) in another locale. I never really spent any time in Taipei but I didn’t like some things about it. Hard to pinpoint. Might’ve been good but now I’m in Korea. Oh well. Can’t really go back unless the money’s better. Shitty how money can be.

18

Some good things Tainan has that Taipei doesn’t:
#1 Convenience. If you have a motorcycle, everything is minutes away–none of this “going-to-Wellcome-and-making-an-evening-of-it.”
#2 Sunshine and manageable rain. With a raincoat, you can easily get past the rainy summer days. In Taipei, raincoats and umbrellas are standard equipment. (Seems depressing not to see the sun for over a week at a time, doesn’t it?)
#3 Cheaper rent. For an individual living in Tainan, paying more than $8000/mo for rent is very unusual and indicates that you are renting a very expensive new small apartment, or maybe an older family-size 2 or 3br apartment. Your option to save money is expanded. This leads to:
#4 Lower overall cost of living. Incomes do not differ that much between the two cities, but the cost of living difference is great.

Some good things Taipei has that Tainan doesn’t have:
#1 Alleycat’s Pizza. Alleycat’s is the ONLY thing that I truly miss about Taipei.
#2 Page One bookstore in the 101 building. Tainan has Eslite and Caves, etc. If you really need something, you can VISIT Taipei for that.
#3 Jason’s Market in the 101 building (basement). There may be a few things there you can’t get in Tainan, but not much. A lot of their canned food is “vegetarian”–fuck that!!!
#4 Yoshinoya Japanese fast-food. Not important, but I really did like this place.

Myths often heard from people who have lived in Taipei since the '80s:
#1 “The Metro system is convenient.” Partially true.
If you want to go from point A to point B, you can take the Taipei Metro. If you VISIT Taipei city and take the Metro system, you will find it to be very convenient. I highly recommend it. The bus systems are also excellent, and are for the most part reliable. Morning and evening rush-hours crowds are very Japanese-style. Living there was a different experience for me. I took these modes of transportation every day, but they really wore on me. Having to use public transportation at least twice a day caused me to have very different feelings about the Taipei life. You have to walk to a station, go down, go through the turnstiles, go down again, wait, get on the train, get off at the appropriate stop, sometimes involving a transfer to another train or bus… Waiting at bus stops in the rain isn’t fun and may take longer and be more expensive than the Metro. If you spend 80 minutes a day going to work and back, that ends up being 27 hours per month. You’re actually wasting one whole day per month in transportation. My Tainan transportation still averages less than a half hour per day. My current fuel cost per month (work and back: $500, average). My former Taipei transportation cost for going to work and back, which was 7 stops from my apartment (that’s company->evening job->home 3 days a week, and company round-trip 2 days a week: $1500, roughly).

#2 “Taipei people get more “modern” information faster than those outside of Taipei.” Illogical.
“Hello? Have you heard of something called “Internet”?” Taiwan is not so big that anyone can not visit Taipei for shows or conventions of interest. Especially with the second freeway and upcoming bullet train, it makes little sense that simply living in Taipei is somehow going to make you automatically ‘absorb all things new and be a more modern person’ before anyone else. That’s tacky, ridiculous '80s bragging.

ONE-NIGHT-STAND HEAVEN?
Women are nicer and easier-going? Perhaps. Depends on how you look at it and what “easier-going” means to you. Taipei seems to be a big dormitory. Many people who live and work in Taipei are not really from Taipei–they got jobs in Taipei and actually have homes elsewhere. Away from the strong arm of parents, people will do just about anything. I have never had a one-night-stand, but Taipei is good for one-nite-stands, if that’s where your interest is. (My former co-worker slept with seven different women in his 10 weeks in Taipei.) Finding a serious relationship might be tough, because bringing you home (eventually) to meet the parents might be … (Enough of this–the Dating and Relationships forum is where this facet of the discussion belongs.) During Chinese New Year, Taipei seems very empty.

LOVE IT, OR LEAVE IT:
26 years growing up in the US made me love the south of Taiwan. 8 months in Taipei made me love Tainan very much. The world is a “salad bar” of different environments. Try some, pick one or mor you like and enjoy your life! :slight_smile:

DISCLAIMER:
This is a long post and there are bound to be people who disagree with some things I have written here. Please do not flame me about certain points. Instead, add your experiences here. I did not write anything here with the intention of being dogmatic. It is my subjective comparison of Taipei and Tainan and/or the south in general. Flash Basbo sounds like he likes nature and I’m offering these details for him and anyone else who may be interested. Since Flash Basbo has just arrived, I avoided anything related to “driving a car in Taipei”, “riding a motorcycle in Taipei”, and “southern stereotypes about Taipei and its people”, because that seems to be irrelevant to him.

I was, in fact, dogmatic about my comment regarding vegetarian “food”. If any “veggies” out there flame me about that I will LMAO and use the flames to heat up some bratwurst!