HELP ABC son and saying no to elderly parents moving in

I know there are a lot of retirement centers in Taiwan. Jo’s suggestion of the domestic helper is what most people do.

In Taiwan, (1) to me rent seems reasonable (definitely compared to SF/SD), (2) medical care is good/cheap, but (3) I have no idea how retirement homes work. Taiwan is rapidly aging and there is a lot of geriatric care, so they might find some good communities. If you can start talking to the family that’s a good idea. That might even just be upping communication with cousins and looking for aunts/uncles who could help logistically. People here might know how long you have to come back to be on national insurance, how taking social security abroad works, and so on.

In the US, I think you could look into senior living apartments. What I’ve always heard is that cost is an issue. I don’t know the other forums, but there must be good ones out there.

It sounds like your instincts are good. What you told me about 'burbs/driving/kids makes perfect sense. I feel for the only children of the world with difficult parents. Are there walkable senior communities where you could put them closer to you? Maybe “senior apartments” in a higher immigrant community within an hour?

I also just want to say that I totally love my parents but would also not love living with them permanently. Dad would have CNN/Fox on 24-7 in the background, parents would be feeding my kids atrocious food, their lifestyle would drive my spouse nuts.My parents do live about 20 minutes from my brother, which is not bad. I know that there will be times when we have to do this type of logistical work. For the haters out there, you really have to put together three generations together to understand the challenges.

Do you mean you throw the parents over the ocean to their and extended family? How it goes would depend on their and your relationship with the family in Taiwan. Have they keep good one with each other, especially with younger generations in their family? If not, overseas careing could become more burden than doing it in US.

The parents sound similar to mine. My parent also didn’t make any plans, though we always said to make some plans, directly and again and again. Things didn’t move until the parent became no longer to be able to live alone. We looked for an elderly home at that point. Before that, what we could do is just researching what kinds of procedures required and looking for some welfare systems we can use when something would happen.

I have met a number of retirees here who lived in the US for long periods (20, 30 years) and retired here. People definitely decide “US is expensive/bad healthcare/terrible food” and move back to Taiwan. I also know a fair number of people in their 50s/60s who come back annually or biannually to visit mom. Remember daughter-in-law is in a tough position too because she’s the Chinese speaker but husband is the one who would normally have to work this out with grandpa and grandma.

This can happen just when they become willing to move back to Taiwan. OP’s parents in law don’t sound like that kind of persons. I’m not sure there is a magic word that can make them realize their expectations are unrealistic.

If OP’s husband keep good relationship with his extended family in Taiwan, one thing he can do is to talk with them about his parents before he will talk with his parents.

That’s a good point too, tando. Sometimes indirect is better in Taiwan. If the OP can explain to in-laws the dilemmas and challenges they may be able to work on the parents. It goes both ways: the relatives can pressure husband but they can also pressure grandpa and grandma.

I think who talk to relatives in Taiwan should be OP’s husband. OP is in-law and foreigner, which could make things more complicated.

OP here

Thank you for the advice - when I say extended fam would help them settle back in Taiwan I mean they would help with the bureaucratic stuff and regaining their Taiwan passport and contracts for a rental or house etc. We would also have to rely on family for help with doctors and so on if the Chinese involved is very complicated.

So Taipei permanently is only an option if family here is able to help. Taipei for only a few mths of the year might be easiest at first. We wouldn’t be ‘tossing them over the ocean’. If Taipei is an option then am just saying we’d need help because of unfamiliarity with some of the logistics of returning Taiwanese. Parents are unlikely to lift a finger to do anything for themselves. Nothing.

Moving to a big US city would be easiest logistically, but there would no family there.

op-

luckily extended fam understand the problem and will do everything they can to help. there’s just a big disconnect between what the parents expect but have not explicitly asked for and what the options on the table are. we’re not mean uncaring people but neither can we offer something that is not possible.

not facing the facts of a situation / being in denial is a lifelong prob for these in laws. when they are forced to stop being in denial there is massive blaming and ‘i am a victim’ and expectation that people will drop everything to dig them out of the mess they have caused at particular times of their life, rather than facing up to the fact that they have been in denial and have had many chances to adopt a more healthy way of planning.

oh well.

That is great.

How about to ask them invite the parents to a 3month stay in Taiwan for family reunion? It could become an annual family event.

It’s not the way to say no, though.

Tando- that is a really great suggestion (: It’s a low risk proposition for them and they might end up liking the experience so they might want to repeat it. I think family would help them find a short term rental at non ‘foreigner’ prices (: (:smile:

See I knew tthis community would have good ideas. If they did do this and didn’t like it that’s ok too- we would go back to plan B perhaps ‘big warm US city with good healthcare and Asian community’

we want them to be happy not dump them and wash our hands of them (:

Surely, the son can communicate with his parents. I don’t know how good their English is, or how good his Mandarin is, but they raised him, right? And surely, it’s the son, if anyone, who does the talkin’ to the parents.

I don’t know how much money the parents have, but it would likely cost US$70,000 per year for a retirement home in America. Would a full-time caregiver in Taiwan cost US$12,000? Rent in Taiwan is a fraction of that in big-city California. I think they’d likely be better off “back home” in Taiwan.

I wouldn’t force the issue if they only visit once a year, but if they mentioned a possible move, I’d point out that, “when in Rome, do as the Romans do”; you can’t expect an American wife in America to be your cook, cleaner, and personal servant.

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They speak english functionally meaning they worked lived raised a kid in the US. It is not their language though and I find the mother expresses more personal stuff to me in Mandarin. Both parents aren’t what one might say deep thinkers or in touch with their emotions nor have they analysed how the ‘feeling out of place’ in the US (which they clearly feel although they also feel ‘we emigrated so never really thought of going back’ might need to be examined with a view to evaluating their options at this stage of their lives. Going back was for many years not a good plan given the son’s education in the US and Taiwan’s more basic options for many things. BUt in the decades they have been away Taiwan has modernized tremendously to the point where rational people would consider it equal to the US for retirement. If they were young now they would not emigrate because there is not a huge difference in quality of life and prospects as there was when they came (60s)

The son’s mandarin is basic- food words, basic needs. I translate for my husband with all his relatives in Taiwan. With his parents he speaks English with a few Chinese words for this and that. No need to go into why I think not raising him bilingual was a mistake (esp given he’s an only son and hey he’s in America so he might marry a westerner who doesn’t speak. As it happened I do, but there was not a lot of forward thinking. ) He’s very accomplished in his field and one can’t do everything. But the parents made a mistake to not teach him their language and they realize it now. It’s not about just language as you all understand living here in Taiwan. Anyhow that can’t be undone so we deal as best we can.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like the son’s relationship with his parents is broken and needs mending. This may be necessary before any further steps can be taken.

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the issue about money is huge- it’s so much more exp to have the same quality of life in the USA. I don’t know much about their finances but I would say they would have a much much higher quality of life in Taiwan because help and food and rent is so much lower.

The sort of blindness as to where you are living I have seen in many parents who moved overseas decades ago and raised kids there. Their expectations are selective. Whether it’s certain cultures in the UK who expect kids to not assimilate and go back to the less advanced country to marry someone picked for them, despite their exposure to the west and women’s choices there, to others who expect 24/7 care in the US from a wife when there are other options that do not destroy a family.

It’s something people emigrating years ago did not think about or had no choice but to ignore (e.g. fleeing a war) but the clash in what is realistic and what is a fossilized expectation is a consequence borne by the first generation of kids.

In the past in Taiwan there were fewer options for older people but I know in talking to family of my husband here that some now move into assisted living villages when 60- 70 so as not to be a burden to their kids, others buy an apt block witht 3,4 friends and age in age with the help of maids. Remember in the past women didn’t work in Taiwan. But now they do and it’s a problem to look after thr older generation even for many younger (40s50s ) Taiwanese.

This idea of 3 generations living together under one roof is just romanticized of sometimes cruel reality. Many families have not enough assets to afford any other option. Sure young family could maybe buy own apartment, but then no dollars left for buxiban or weekly trips.

Is the same with olders. Many families would like proper care for their old parents, but simply sometimes too expensive. My wife family is very conservative. But her ded put own mother in retirement home, cause grandma was totally dissable. There she had professional help. She really needed. People in taiwan have moved on with time and usually they hire maids ( cheap labour from SEA). Actually never saw a family without having one, where parents were home alone and dauhther in law taking care of em. Come on, taiwanese work f
like 10 to 13 hours per day. They allways have maids, and those who can afford, sent parents to retirement house.

Is not easy to take care of olders. They all have own silly moments. I took care of my old grandfa, he loved me a lot, but kinda could not stand others. He got in some nasty fights (being 92 lol) at retirement place, and was sexually assaulting young nurses. I went there at night countless time, cause he was the one really raised me up and finacially helped me a lot. It was hard but i owned him indeed.

Have feeling OP parents living in their own world. Isolated from reality. Will be hard talk to em. Be patient and do not let em manipulate you. Maybe best for you guys, cause obv your husband is not close with them, to send em to taiwan. Cost are way lower and they might like old home. Warm weather, and olders are respected in taiwan.