How can we improve the image of English teachers in Asia?

Lord Lucan wrote [quote]All you do is find a man that actually WANTS to teach kindie, and then lock him up. You’ve got your man.

Ban males from teaching kindie. Why the fuck would any right thinking male actually WANT to teach kindie? [/quote]
Well, kindie teaching pays well, and those with minimal English ability can get by; in other words, a lot of Canadians, both men and women, teach in kindergartens.

It’s illegal for waiguoren to teach in kindies and I think this is a good regulation. There are many very capable Taiwanese English teachers who could do a better job.

[quote=“almas john”]Lord Lucan wrote [quote]All you do is find a man that actually WANTS to teach kindie, and then lock him up. You’ve got your man.

Ban males from teaching kindie. Why the fuck would any right thinking male actually WANT to teach kindie? [/quote]
Well, kindie teaching pays well, and those with minimal English ability can get by; in other words, a lot of Canadians, both men and women, teach in kindergartens.

It’s illegal for waiguoren to teach in kindies and I think this is a good regulation. There are many very capable Taiwanese English teachers who could do a better job.[/quote]

Yep, especially since so many of the kids are so young they can hardly even speak Chinese properly. Not enough faith is placed in Taiwanese English teachers. I’ve worked with some awesome ones over the last few years.

Bismarck wrote [quote]Not enough faith is placed in Taiwanese English teachers. I’ve worked with some awesome ones over the last few years.[/quote]
Absolutely, there has been a very encouraging improvement in the quality of Taiwanese English teachers. I have a class teaching junior high school English teachers in Chiayi and I am really impressed with their level of English. There was a time when you met local English teachers with whom you could not communicate.

After reading The Tipping Point, I would love to see a social epidemic happen here in the English industry. If we can get the right kind of people involved, I think this certification program could work.

Call it the SafeTeach Certificate. It would entail a criminal background check and a degree verification at the minimum and an upgraded version that would also involve contacting former employers and other things like first aid training (especially training in CPR for young children)… an Extra SafeTeach certificate option? Workshops can even be run in positive classroom management and discipline, child development, TESOL theories and practice, teaching ideas, etc. in order to maintain an enhanced SafeTeach certificate.

It can be run privately, as long as we can get the right kind of people involved to help get the word out. Get this sponsored by the MOE or some other major education organization - the ETA-ROC?, but not necessarily involve them. Foreign buxiban owners, you guys are the perfect people for making this sticky. If you get your teachers to sign themselves up for this, you not only can promote them to our clients confidentally, but you can even add a special label that your school is a SafeTeach school. And teachers who wish to be thought of as professionals, you can also help get this spread. Maybe it can be added to the myu.com.tw as an added bonus for teachers who post their profiles.

Teachers can add their SafeTeach Certificate to their resumes and/or have their SafeTeach Certificate in hand for interviews and demos. Schools can advertise that they hire only teachers which have SafeTeach certificates because they “care about your child’s safe-T” or want “Safe-T First!”. Schools which hire only SafeTeach-certified teachers could quickly become able to draw in parents quickly. At first teachers can volunteer for the certificate, but ideally, schools would take on the onus of getting their teachers SafeTeach certified so they can make more money.

Maybe even down the line, we can get SafeTeach certification for schools which seek safety in their schools by having things like routine fire and earthquake drills, evacuation equipment in every classroom, first aid kits in every classroom, safe buses (no more kids dying of overheating after being forgotten on buses), corner covers for furniture, outlet covers, and door locks on chemicals…a particular pet peeve of mine considering the lack of even standard safety procedures at my former school where the teachers left the safety lock under the sink where sharp knives and cleaning chemicals were stored unlocked and the hundred or so outlet covers that I bought out of my own pocket for the school were just left off and never replaced when they plugged and unplugged things…oops, where was I? Oh yeah, schools that have these things, SafeTeach certified-employees (foreign and local teachers and any staff member who comes into contact with the children) and regular Safe-T inspections to ensure they are sticking to their requirements.

If it’s going to happen, though, now is the time with the John Carr case still being fresh in the local community’s minds.

What say you all?

I say it’s a good idea. I like it.

I’m talking about people I’ve met. If I’d met any young, black women who didn’t sweat all over the children that I thought were perverts, I would have mentioned them, too. But strangely, I haven’t. Why is that, I wonder? Kiddie-fiddling in Asia is predominantly a white male thing. I can’t believe anyone would want to pretend otherwise. And so what if all YOUR teachers were men? Were you taught in a haphazardly regulated system that is known to be a haven for perverts on the run? Transient grown men who teach kindergarten in Asia have to be first on anyone’s list of possible pedophiles, however many genuinely (or purely financially) motivated ones there are. And that’s just tough shit for the nice guys.

ImaniOU’s SafeTeach cert is a great idea. You have to get a crimimal background check if you want to get an APRC, so I don’t think it would be too much of added burden to expect people genuinely interested in education to have to get one, too.

You guys need to go back to the beginning. The second post in this thread said exactly the same thing.

Isn’t this basically the same idea?

[quote=“Tyc00n”]Sure. When if you have a situation where its difficult to know where people come from or their background you develop a branded certifying company.

A good example of such a company is the “heart foundation tick of approval” for certain foods. If people see it, they recognize it and they know it passes certain criteria healthwise.

What you need to do is develop a relationship with all of the schools and then provide a “tick of approval” where you certify teachers. The schools would pay a small fee in order for you to “certify” them.

If you become big enough, teachers that become certified could be paid more and hence the motivation for teachers to in fact certify themselves through you. If you are lucky and become big enough, you could push legislation for it to become a requirement and then you have a most beautiful kind of business… a monopoly.

Certification would include: background police check, documentation check, university / qualification check and previous employer recommendations…

How would I start out? I’d start by offering to schools lists of people that you’ve already certified.[/quote]

[quote=“Dogfaces”]You guys need to go back to the beginning. The second post in this thread said exactly the same thing.

[quote=“Tyc00n”]Sure. When if you have a situation where its difficult to know where people come from or their background you develop a branded certifying company. …

A good example of such a company is the “heart foundation tick of approval” for certain foods. If people see it, they recognize it and they know it passes certain criteria healthwise.

What you need to do is develop a relationship with all of the schools and then provide a “tick of approval” where you certify teachers. The schools would pay a small fee in order for you to “certify” them.

If you become big enough, teachers that become certified could be paid more and hence the motivation for teachers to in fact certify themselves through you. If you are lucky and become big enough, you could push legislation for it to become a requirement and then you have a most beautiful kind of business… a monopoly.

Certification would include: background police check, documentation check, university / qualification check and previous employer recommendations…

How would I start out? I’d start by offering to schools lists of people that you’ve already certified.[/quote][/quote]
Yes, you’re right, it’s the same thing. Apologies to Tyc00n, but ImaniOU did give it a cute name! :wink:

A cute name? Well, that’s everything when branding. Maybe we can have a logo designed and then force incoming teachers to have it tattooed on their ass. May as well, as we are all (as is being suggested) being forced to bend over and take it. Does anyone remember pink triangles?

I wonder if, under this new regime, these “training sessions” would be mandatory as well?

[quote=“Dogfaces”]A cute name? Well, that’s everything when branding. Maybe we can have a logo designed and then force incoming teachers to have it tattooed on their ass. May as well, as we are all (as is being suggested) being forced to bend over and take it. Does anyone remember pink triangles?

I wonder if, under this new regime, these “training sessions” would be mandatory as well?

[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure the “Great Persecution” of English teachers in Taiwan will be looked back on with as much horror as the Nazi deathcamps by our descendents. Hopefully, in the enlightened future, such human rights violations as having to not be a convicted pedophile in your own country in order to teach children in Asia will be seen as barbaric. :unamused:

Are you KIDDING? Child sex is a thriving business – for Asian men, almost exclusively.

But it does strike me as strange that they’d require a criminal background check before you can marry their women, but you’re perfectly free to shut yourself in a room with their preteen kids.

Are you KIDDING? Child sex is a thriving business – for Asian men, almost exclusively.

But it does strike me as strange that they’d require a criminal background check before you can marry their women, but you’re perfectly free to shut yourself in a room with their preteen kids.[/quote]
You are correct, of course. I was thinking about it in relation to the English teaching industry in Asia, not sex tourism in general. I should’ve been more specific.

It’s also strange that men want to be shut in rooms with preteen kids.

[quote=“Dogfaces”]You guys need to go back to the beginning. The second post in this thread said exactly the same thing.

Isn’t this basically the same idea?

[quote=“Tyc00n”]Sure. When if you have a situation where its difficult to know where people come from or their background you develop a branded certifying company.

A good example of such a company is the “heart foundation tick of approval” for certain foods. If people see it, they recognize it and they know it passes certain criteria healthwise.

What you need to do is develop a relationship with all of the schools and then provide a “tick of approval” where you certify teachers. The schools would pay a small fee in order for you to “certify” them.

If you become big enough, teachers that become certified could be paid more and hence the motivation for teachers to in fact certify themselves through you. If you are lucky and become big enough, you could push legislation for it to become a requirement and then you have a most beautiful kind of business… a monopoly.

Certification would include: background police check, documentation check, university / qualification check and previous employer recommendations…

How would I start out? I’d start by offering to schools lists of people that you’ve already certified.[/quote][/quote]

Yes, that’s where I got the idea, but I expanded on it as a voluntary thing which only receives endorsement from an educational organization and how it can be used to certify schools as well. As well as making it a bit more visible than a “tick”

Certification is a great idea, but doesn’t amount to a hill of beans so long as parents only look for the young white face.

Here’s a sure-fire way to improve the image of English teachers in Taiwan:
Start a thread entitled Tips for the drunkard teacher.

Exactly. As long as the parents dictate that side of the biz (kids), they bluest eyes, blondest hair will get the job. Frankly I don’t give a rat’s arse about the children’s ESL biz. I think it should be completely abandoned and begun anew. But that’ll never happen. So, all this talk is just tilting at windmills.

Let me ask about this. Earlier I spoke a greaseball who wanked off ( via webcam) at a barely out of her teens young student. I know who he is and where he works. What would you pundits have me do with this knowledge?

Had she reached legal age of consent as defined by local law? If so, it’s a case of two consenting adults, and none of your business. If not, call the police.

Yup. Call the cops. The guy probably has all kinds of stuff on his hard drive if that’s what he’s into. Good luck getting the cops to do anything about it though.

I’m talking about people I’ve met. If I’d met any young, black women who didn’t sweat all over the children that I thought were perverts, I would have mentioned them, too. But strangely, I haven’t. Why is that, I wonder? Kiddie-fiddling in Asia is predominantly a white male thing. I can’t believe anyone would want to pretend otherwise.[/quote]

Well, perhaps I was being a tad hard on you. It’s unfortunate that all the male teachers you’ve met here have been the over-weight, over-40 sweaty variety that have turned your stomach. However, although I realise that some are somewhat repulsive, but this is not exclusive to this group. I’ve met several young lads (early 20’s) from Canada, US or England that look like 60’s style hippies who just got out of bed and put on three year old clothes that have never seen a washing machine.
I just get frustrated (as I believe the OP does, hence the thread) at being a career educator who takes pride in my work, cares for the advancement of my students and their safety. I just hate it when we are painted with the same tar brush.

As to why you’ve only met perverted looking old men in Taiwan is beyond me. That’s a question only you can answer.

Not all my teacher were men. But the best were. My best Science teacher ever - Mr Beukes. My best English teacher ever - Mr Mansfield (granted he may have looked gay - some ignorant folks would even say he looked like a pedo - , especially being single, middle aged, emaciated and strangely feminine in his demeanor, but he was simply an awesome teacher that invoked in me a life long love of English literature and brought Shakespeare to life). Second best English teacher ever - Mr Oosthuizen. Best history teacher ever - Mr Canova (a man who never used text books but who told the story of world history in such vivid detial one almost felt as if you were there). Best Afrikaans teacher ever - Mr Van der Merwe. Best Biology teacher ever - Mr Horn.
As for my math teachers? Well I was dismal at math and none of then, male or female could ever get me to comprehend the subject satifactorily. Not even Mrs Van der Walt who is one of the few female teachers I had that were really great.

The same went for university, of which I only really had one female Professor that sticks in my mind.

That may be so, but be carfeul of generalising too much. The parents of kindergarten students at a kindergarten affiliated with my school specifically requested me last year for their kids, due in part to my track record and with the excellent rapport I have with all my kids. This self same class is now starting their first grade and will be enrolled in our schools ESL program (which is a two hour a day with a foreign teacher esl program teaching a range of subjects after normal school, and English language based instruction and day care for the rest of the after-school program with a Taiwanese teacher). Initially they were to get a teacher other than myself, but the kids, parents and school manager (her daughter is one of my students) refused and specifically requested me.
Now I may not match your profile of an over 40 over-weight sweaty individual, but I am a 31 year old white male teacher NOT from North America or England.

Yes, as I said in a previous post, I think this is a wonderful idea and I support it wholeheartedly. As I’ve stated, I’m also concerned about the safety of my students. It may also help to root out the folks who have fake degree’s or no qualifications and further discredit what should be a proud profession.

Here’s a post looking for a foreign teacher in Tainan found on Tainan Bulletin:

[quote]Qualifications:
*University Bachelors degree in USA, Canada…
(Specialization in English or language Art preferred)
*Be interested in teaching children
*Be responsible indivisual
*responsible and patient with love of children
*TESL certificate holder is preferred[/quote]

Interested in teaching children? Love of children? Logically this should be an obvious trait in a teacher. What kind of teacher would you be if you found them to be loathsome filthy little cretins? However, on the other hand, this could also be construed as being a little nutty for a male… After-all, aren’t we just a pack of testosterone feuled, skirt chasing, beer swilling, violent primates with not intrinsic instincts for the care of small children?

I realise there is a dangerous element out there. But there are also many very good male teachers (as there are many excellent female teachers, and some shitty female teachers). Best thing would be to do what ImaniOU suggested. Regulate it better. I really do believe that all the interests of a child should be considered and that their safety is paramount. However, for this ever to be successful, we will need more than just a few concerned teachers invloved.

Magnolia, if I misunderstood your meaning, I apologise.

Do you have hard evidence? Do you need money . . . ?

The Thais are getting serious, or so it would appear.

HG

[quote]Foreign Ministry can help screen foreign teachers

BANGKOK: – To avert potential ‘bad cases’ from occurring, Thailand’s Foreign Ministry is ready to cooperate with schools nationwide to screen prospective foreign teachers before they come to Thailand.

Checking the qualifications of foreign teachers before recruiting them to work for their schools is a high-profile concern in the wake of the case of an American teacher charged with murdering a six-year-old girl in the United States 10 years ago, Foreign Minister Dr. Kantathi Suphamongkhon said Tuesday.

Dr. Kantathi said the ministry has always exchanged information with other countries on blacklisted people or international criminals, and that the ministry was pleased to cooperate with schools scrutinise the backgrounds of foreign job applicants for potential criminal records.

“I recommend that schools deliberately scrutinise the qualifications of foreign teachers,” Dr. Kantathi said, “particularly language teachers.”

The foreign minister said that prospective employers should always check with stated past employers and references the applicants mention in their resumes, he said.

“Today is age of information technology (IT),” Dr. Kanthati said, "so schools can use the Internet to contact schools or institutions abroad directly.

Dr. Kantathi ruled out accusation that Thailand was too lax in issuing visas, saying that he considered the visa issue one of his main policies.

He said there was no need for the government to review its visa issuance policy or stop issuing visas to certain countries, but that discussions should be held among agencies concerned to strictly monitor immigration procedures to prevent the entry of inappropriate persons.

Dr. Kantathi’s remarks followed last Wednesday’s arrest of John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of several international schools in Thailand.

Mr. Karr faces charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault in connection with the 1996 killing of the 6-year-old child beauty queen, JonBenet Ramsey. He was deported to the United States on Sunday.

–TNA 2006-08-22[/quote]

Are you KIDDING? Child sex is a thriving business – for Asian men, almost exclusively.

But it does strike me as strange that they’d require a criminal background check before you can marry their women, but you’re perfectly free to shut yourself in a room with their preteen kids.[/quote]
You are correct, of course. I was thinking about it in relation to the English teaching industry in Asia, not sex tourism in general. I should’ve been more specific.

It’s also strange that men want to be shut in rooms with preteen kids.[/quote]

Well, for one thing, they’re fun, always laugh and make even a shitty day turn out great. Having worked in a corporate environment before, it sure beats “adult” backstabbing, gossip mongering and working with two faced assholes.