How to Find a Non-Teaching Job?

Work Working in Taiwan
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41

I don’t know much about the law schools in Texas, but I do know that UT Law in Austin is one of the top rated public law schools in the country. It might make it easier for you to get a 6 figure salary if you get into a good school like that.

If you want to come to Taiwan to travel before getting settled down, that’s fine, but I wouldn’t expect it to improve your career in law much at all. If anything, I’d expect that it would hurt your career as others have mentioned above. You should be well aware of that before coming.

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[quote]I don’t know much about the law schools in Texas, but I do know that UT Law in Austin is one of the top rated public law schools in the country. It might make it easier for you to get a 6 figure salary if you get into a good school like that.
[/quote]

UT is one of the best in the country… University of Houston is between 50-60 overall… still a good school… It has the best Health Law program in the country and its Intellutuel Property program is in the top five…

For salary… in Houston and Texas in general UT and UH grads will start the same… I have sopken with many lawyers here… and that is what they tell me… If I want to go an work for a firm in New York… then I will have a better chance if I go to UT but regional and here in Hosuton … UH will give just as much power…

Some of the top 100 US Law Firms have their main office in Houston and many others have a branch office here in Houston… they all recuit from UH heavly… so my only problem would be if I wanted to work a firm that was not located here in Texas it would be harder comming from UH than if I came from UT… that is the only major diff…

UT grads have a better chance of getting a 100K+ salary to start… they can have a lower class rank than a student at UH… but if you are in the top 10-15% at UH you can still get a 100K+ salary… My friend graduated last year from UH he was … in the top 10% and a memeber of the law review… He works for Baker Botts… one of the best firms in the country… They hired him for the Houston office… but they have offices all around the world… one in Hong Kong… … I will be fine at UH… I have no reason not to be in the top 10%… but if I am not… the average UH student still starts at 75-80K… no too bad … but I do not expect to be average…

First I do not see how it can hurt my career… I will be the same age or at most one year older than the average starting student… When we all finish we will be staring at the same point and same age… I do not see how delaying law school one year by going to Taiwan is going to hurt my carerr…??? Can someone explain why they think it is going to hurt my career…

Second, I am thankful that peole have responded. Thank you for your input. However, I would not make this decison without doing some real research with lawyers/business people in Houston…

Knowing the language/customs and culture of another country for an International trade lawyer is helpful… you still need to know your &$…and If work for a business (non law firm)… a company that does business in China… it will be helpful… it does not garentee me anything… but all that I ahve talk to… Presidents/VP’s/Directors… of international business and associates/partners of law firms… have informed me that I will be more valuabe/marketable to the company/firm if I knew Chinese…

My Stepmother is a VP for a departemnt of a company(top 100 in the US) that has a deparment that deals with China everyday… and has showed me that with a MBA/JD or at least JD and being able to speak/read/write Chinese… haveing a good understading of business practice in China… that I would advance faster than a person who did not… all other things being the same… agian i need to know my && but that shoulf go without saying…

I really did not think that peole would say " oh… look he lived in Taiwan… studied Chinese… lets make him head of US-China trade operations adn give him a 100K+ salary…"… :laughing: NO NO No… only after I have proven myself for a company or firm here wil they give me that kind of oppurtunity…

Thanks for the info…If someone has a valid arguement on how it will hurt my law or business career by living in Taiwan for 1-2 years please inform me … I am willing to listen…

43

we arent saying it will hurt your career, we are simply saying it wont exponentialy help your career.

expat jobs are about time with company, azz licking and luck.

and law grads in their first year out make US$100+? wow. thats more than most MBA grads WITH other degrees AND experience…

44

Sorry, perhaps the wrong choice of words. Maybe your career won’t be hurt, but you’ll lose out on some experience and some salary that you could have earned during those two years of being in Taiwan.

In any case, don’t listen to me. You seem to know exactly what you want, and I don’t think you’ll find many people on the board who can tell you much more that they haven’t told you already or that you don’t already know.

Good luck with your plans.

45

One other thing, learning to speak/understand/read/write Chinese well can take a lot longer than a few years. Don’t overestimate the amount of time needed to master the language. It’s not the same as Spanish or other romanized languages.

I’m sure you’ll do well since you’re so determined, but I just wanted to throw out a little friendly warning/advice.

46

The other is Taiwan does not equal to China (regardless of what’s said here in other forums). You’ve mentioned China a lot in this thread. If you’re in Taiwan and Taipei, then you’re in the wrong geographical location.

Anyways, I agree with all the others here so far. You seem sure, well, that’s to be expected from the lawyers and lawyer-to-be types. :wink:

Good luck.

47

[quote="
Thanks for the info…If someone has a valid arguement on how it will hurt my law or business career by living in Taiwan for 1-2 years please inform me … I am willing to listen…[/quote]

Exactly, my plan mimics your exactly. Also, you are right that you learn more of the language when you are immersed in it especially with Chinese. And I’ll give you bit of advice, go to and interact in places where no one speaks English at all. I talk to Chinese here and some will know English and I automatically will revert back to speaking it (human nature), others though don’t, all the know is ‘bye’ and then I really have to speak Chinese and I become a lot more comfortable speaking it and listening to it. This is one of the reasons I’m living in Kaohsiung Taiwan-not many people speak English here at least in comparison with other cities like Taipei or Shanghai.

Oh crap you’ve been Spanish speaking countries, you already know this

48

Hmm. Yeah – reminds me of what a certain someone recently told me.

Since mainland China uses “simplified” characters, learning to read and write in Taiwan is different enough that it’s not all that useful for teaching or for business on the mainland.

49

Baker Botts

bakerbotts.com/careers/stude … 516f1cb200

bakerbotts.com/careers/students/recruiting/

V&E

vinson-elkins.com/careers/compensation.asp

vinson-elkins.com/careers/la … of+Houston

You get the point… there are more firms… You must be in the top 10-15% of your class… and many want you to be a member of the law review… your average student cannot walk into one of these companies… but the average is still 75-80K USD… If all fails I can live with that…

[quote]Anyways, I agree with all the others here so far. You seem sure, well, that’s to be expected from the lawyers and lawyer-to-be types.
[/quote]

LOL LOL LOL … always a lawyer joke… The funny thing is … I may even practice law… a JD/MBA… is helpful for international trade… but nothing beats experience… That is why i would not stay in Taiwan or Asia in general for more than two years… Aslong as I am still within one or two years of the average student’s age… I will be ok… Most of them will have been working a misc job after their undergarde… and now they need an advanced degree to move up… or to make more money… so they go to law or business school…

[quote]The other is Taiwan does not equal to China (regardless of what’s said here in other forums). You’ve mentioned China a lot in this thread. If you’re in Taiwan and Taipei, then you’re in the wrong geographical location.
[/quote]

I know that they are differnet… but I am using Taiwan as an introduction to China… to learn the language… I am sure there will be variations… just like in spanish… but the solid foundation will still be the same…There is a good chance that I will not work in China… I will need to get back to US for grad school… but it will be a good introduction…

[quote]One other thing, learning to speak/understand/read/write Chinese well can take a lot longer than a few years. Don’t overestimate the amount of time needed to master the language. It’s not the same as Spanish or other romanized languages.
[/quote]

I am sure… my last two GF were Chinese Americans… they were both botn here… but they still spoke Chinsese… they were forced to go to Chinese school on Saturdays… Houston has the 3rd largest “China Town” in the states… I could take classes there…but it would not be the same as using it every day in Taiwan…

I hope to get a solid foundation in the 18 months that I am there… not master… the solid foundation along with countinus study while earning my JD/MBA will increase my ability… Just think of me going to Taiwan as a “Jump Start”… to learning Chinese…

There are many places in Houston where I can practice… There are a number of large Chinese supermarkets… restraunts… where everyone speaks Chinese… There is the Chinese Community Center (very large) that has events… adn people like me are always welcome… many people are new and want to work on their English…

My ex and I lived in a nice apartment in “China Town”… where all the street signs are in Chinese… posters… store signs… everything… is in Chinese… we would go shopping at the local Chinese supermaket… for food… all the food was in Chinese… Sometimes I did not know what I was eating if she did not tell me… :laughing:

I will move back to this part of town when I come back… that will force me to keep using my Chinese. there by imroving it. go to the store and pick up the local paper… that is in Chinese… not the English one… talk to people at the store… order food… the dry cleaners… etc… many many things… and taking weekend class at the Chinese Community Center…

ccchouston.org/

chineseciviccenter.org/en/about/

ccchouston.org/html/Youth_Pr … lasses.htm

[quote]Sorry, perhaps the wrong choice of words. Maybe your career won’t be hurt, but you’ll lose out on some experience and some salary that you could have earned during those two years of being in Taiwan.
[/quote]

Sure I will lose out on 1-2 years of a good salary… but in the long run… will it really matter… aslong as I get my degree and have a career…

When we are on our death bed … are we going to say “I wsih I had not gone to China/Taiwan for those few years… seen the Great wall of China… The Summer Palace… met that life long friend in the market outside of Taipei… etc… I wish I would have had 1-2 more years of work then I would feel that I have lived life”

I do not think so… we are here to live life… I do not want to throw my career away… that is why i am only taking 1-2 years off…that way I will still be in the same age level or within 1-2 years as the rest of my fellow JD grads…

I am really comming to live life… to do things that I will not be able to do when I settle down… Most mariages in the US end in divorce… over 55% and most of them are caused by people not living life… when they had the chance… A guy in his mid 30’s or mid 40’s … come to the conclusion that he has money is taking care of his family… but he has not really done anything other thatn school and work… looks for some excitment… usally inthe form of a 20’s girl… cheats… and ends of divorced… wife gets half of everything he worked his ass off for… LOL… :loco: Talk about losing money…

Sometimes… here in the states… we are about GO GO GO GO GO … and forget about life… is meat to be lived… aslong as it will not hurt my career… it will only help me…

I am a logical person … that is why I am choosing a way to live life… that COULD provide great futrue job related benifits…“Kill two birds with one stone”… I was jsut trying to find the best way to kill two birds with one stone…lol

Thanks for the input…

50

Hello,

I would like to know how people who work outside of teaching got hired. I am interested in both people with 2 years experience after graduation, and those without (more interested in this though).

I know some people here have got jobs without having 2 years experience after graduation and had no problems. How was this accomplished? I have found a new job outside teaching and just found out about the rule, and so has my company. We both don’t know what to do.

I’m not really interested in committing fraud, but I guess that’s what people are doing? Is there a way around this rule? Experience before graduation have any affect? I’ve heard this rules are being changed, but I understand why they exist, and who they protect.

Thoughts?

51

Do you have professional experience or credentials outside of teaching? What field?

If not, what types of jobs are you interested in and do you think they’d be willing to hire you to do that type of work back home?

If they wouldn’t hire you back home to do those types of work, why do you think they would here? Just because you’ve got superior English skills to them which could help their business to appear more professional? Would your presence honestly be likely to generate increased sales, revenue, profitability for them? More than your salary. I’m not being critical, just curious.

Incidentally, I started out teaching here and no longer do so, but I did have a professional background in my prior life back home. Not bragging, just saying that it is perfectly easy if one does have such a background. Otherwise I’d imagine it would be much more difficult.

52

oops, dp.

53

I as well had a professional background before I came here and I still had to teach for a couple of years before I could find my way out.

Good luck!

54

Well,

I do have professional experience, but it isn’t much. Enough to get people interested, but not enough to fill a resume.

The advantages I “might” have is that I can speak English, which surprisingly is quite the advantage for some companies (I’m finding) and I have “workable” Chinese, at least enough to talk to co-workers. I’m no professional and business Chinese is still way ahead of me, but I have at least started.

The problem mostly likely is simply the law that you need two years experience. I could go home and do this and then return, but that would feel like a step back for me in terms of learning Chinese and getting interesting experience that could be useful in other fields.

I have no idea really about what a few years of experience in office work here would look like back home though. I wonder if anybody would have an idea.

55

I think I got around that one by drafting a dodgy letter of recommendation once. I had the experience, it was just a pain in the arse to try and document it. After that one time, other places I worked never asked for any such thing, but I still got the job and ARC.

As for life after Taiwan. I’m in HK now working for an international bank. I started out in this game in Taiwan with a local broker and leap-frogged my way until I was head hunted here. Not really interested in heading back to my home country (Australia), but I’m confident my experience is transferable, especially now. I think if you keep moving career wise you can always dress up the time you spent spell-checking Golden Smiley Catfish Incs’ accounts.

HG

56

Yes I understand that drafting a fake letter of recommendation is possible, but a fake work experience document is a little different (especially since I came here within two years of graduating). It could be done I guess.

I was hoping to get into marketing here, which of course is completely different from finances. I guess the transferring of experience would be different as well. Finances is perhaps more standardized than marketing? (No idea here).

The teaching game has to be gotten out of to create any kind of a future, unless you love teaching. Going home with 5 years teaching experience is like going home with nothing (again, unless you go into teaching).

Sidenote: I was in HK on the weekend and the pace is so incredibly different. Here I’m walking faster than most on the streets, there I was getting run over!

57

They used that letter as evidence of experience that one time.

Don’t think marketing would be any different to finance, in that, as long as you kept moving up towards international companies. Once you have experience with an international firm that can then usually be transferable.

HG

58

I work in marketing for a smallish local company. Two things were crucial in me getting the job - firstly I have a degree from a very well-known university, and secondly I speak decent Mandarin and German (one of their key markets is Germany). I actually was hired as a tech writer and then started taking the initiative, doing more and more marketing tasks, before the boss gave me a better job after he saw the effect of a couple of my projects on his bottom line.

How did I get a non-teaching job? It’s not rocket science - I blitzed www.104.com.tw - applying for ten or twenty positions a day until someone finally gave me one. First one wasn’t great, but I got some valuable experience which helped me on the way to the job I do now (which is better by miles than that first job).

59

You must be quite fluent in Chinese to be able to use 104 to apply for jobs.
Are there any other job searching websites providing English layout?
I know that tealit provides jobs outside of teaching, but only a few.
taoroo has a lot of jobs opportunity but the layout makes it seems unconvincing and unprofessional.

60

I’m hopefully moving into a QC position for a German company. It’s very technical, and engineering-related.

I’ll be given training, after which I have to write a test. If I pass I start the new job. It pays three times what I earn teaching. It’s Monday to Friday work. I’ll get a per diem of $100/day.

Nice change from teaching.

Met the guy who runs the company in a bar.