How to get Taiwan Citizenship - Primer, FAQ, and Resources

[quote=“coolingtower”]Uh…because I can:

-get a cell phone in my name
-get a house loan in my name (with loan)
-apply for a credit card
-get a car in my name (with loan)
-pay less tax on interest at any bank
-work freely (3 jobs, 5 jobs, whatever–they’re all legal)
-start a company in my name
-vote
-get retirement pension when I’m old
-travel, and not be looked down upon as a “US Citizen”, as the US is hated by virtually the whole world.
AND…
-Have the feeling that I’m actually a citizen of the country where I want to settle down.

If I were to visit the US, it might cost me around NT$2000 or whatever to get a visa. How does that balance with all the freedoms mentioned above? If you want these “freedoms” in the US, then GO TO the US. Easy, right?

It’s all a matter of preference. Live where you like. If you want to become serious about where you live, get citizenship there. Why not? I did it, and succeeded. Your life is up to you.

(Can’t wait for the first loser to flame me about my statement above regarding “US being a world enemy”. This is going to be FUUUUUN!!!
:smiley:)[/quote]

Well, you’ve got very good personal reasons, can’t argue with ‘em…the travel thing might cause a bit o’ quibbling (travelling on a U.S. passport is easier). And I ain’t arguing about the U.S. being a world enemy, of course I think it could be usurped by China in another 20 years if the Chinese economy doesn’t collapse…

Since its what you wanted, and whatchoo got…congrats, and best of luck :slight_smile:…and thanks for the serious response to a half-assed retort from me, I done lurned sump’n :slight_smile: (and it was VERY painful, I don’t plan on doing it again soon :smiley:).

[quote=“coolingtower”]Uh…because I can:

Have the feeling that I’m actually a citizen of the country where I want to settle down.

It’s all a matter of preference. Live where you like. If you want to become serious about where you live, get citizenship there. Why not? I did it, and succeeded. Your life is up to you. [/quote]

I was having a few beers with Cooling Tower in Tainan a short time ago. The bar staff call us the Brothers Chang as we both have the same family name and ROC ID Cards.

We both know where at home here when the foreign customers ask the bar staff why there are 2 white guys chatting away in Chinese and writing Chinese on bits of paper and passing it back and forth. (CT was giving me some map directions in Chinese) The bar staff just explain that we are both Taiwanese :noway: :noway: and not foreigners :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

I respect what you’ve done, but I’m guessing you probably don’t do a whole lot of travel to other countries. If you want to go to almost any other country besides the US, you’ll also need a visa if you travel on a Taiwan passport. If you have US passport, you can usually avoid these visas. I know there are exceptions and all that, but this is true for the most part.[/quote]

ARMCHAIR TRAVELER:
You’re absolutely right, scomargo. I don’t travel very much. In fact, I avoid it as possible as I can (HAHA I HAD to say that–Chinglish). I love spending money like anybody else does but when I spend it, I want something to show for it. Materialistic things: house, new motorcycle, new computer, more RAM, DVDs, clothes, etc. I am seriously not interested in paying the high cost of plane tickets to trapse around the globe either looking at boring package-tourist crap that I can see on Internet or wasting many weeks of no income to swat at mosquitos and find my own adventure in a jungle somewhere, only to come back more tired than I was before I left. I’m a homebody (I forget…is that a word?) I like to be home and spend no more than one night away. Give me my motorcycle, camera, and maps and I still have not exhausted all of the beauty of southern Taiwan. (I’ve been to Taipei before, but that doesn’t count because there’s no beauty there.)

VISA ISSUES:
I’ll need a visa to go to almost any country “besides” the US? You should have said "including’ the US, scomargo. I know I’ll need a visa if/when I travel to the US. The AIT people were very serious in telling me this when I canceled my US citizenship. (Scomargo, I sense you may have been thinking “on any passport besides a US passport” and written something that wasn’t what you meant. No “serious” correction intended here.)

My family is helping me get LPR (Legal Permanent Residence). That’s where I can freely visit the US based on the fact that I have family members who are citizens. I haven’t heard anything from them for a while (about this). They probably forgot. I’m not excited about getting that, either. That will be a big hassle. They have to fill out the forms and pay something like US$200+ and then wait for a Social Security number to become available. Next, I will be contacted and have to go to AIT for a stressful interview. Our plan was to meet in Hawaii next time. Forget it. I’d rather meet in Japan or Belize or somewhere else. Easier for all of us.

FORGOT ONE:
One thing I forgot to mention in my “freedoms list” above was: “buying mutual funds.”

When I was a US citizen, I had bought and sold stock in Taiwan with no problem. I could get bank accounts with no problem. However, I was refused mutual funds a couple times. I went to a bank with a friend and we were interested in some MF. (That’s mutual funds, OK?) They said “Because you’re a US citizen, you can’t buy MF here.” Another bank said “Oh, they other people got it wrong–we’ll help you.” Then, the same answer finally came back.

With the different economies the way they are, I have no interested in investments. It’s just fun to add that to my “freedoms list”. :smiley:

I respect what you’ve done, but I’m guessing you probably don’t do a whole lot of travel to other countries. If you want to go to almost any other country besides the US, you’ll also need a visa if you travel on a Taiwan passport. If you have US passport, you can usually avoid these visas. I know there are exceptions and all that, but this is true for the most part.[/quote]

VISA ISSUES:
I’ll need a visa to go to almost any country “besides” the US? You should have said "including’ the US, scomargo. I know I’ll need a visa if/when I travel to the US. The AIT people were very serious in telling me this when I canceled my US citizenship. (Scomargo, I sense you may have been thinking “on any passport besides a US passport” and written something that wasn’t what you meant. No “serious” correction intended here.)
[/quote]

I said “besides” the US since you’d already mentioned the US in your previous post (see quote). I think it goes without saying that Taiwanese need a visa to visit the US. Anyway, I have no bones to pick with you, and congratulate you on completing the journey of acquiring Taiwanese citizenship.

Scomargo.

Oh, yeah. I see it now. That makes sense.

Congratulations, coolingtower!

Do keep us up to date on the military service thing. I’m too old and farty to be mucking around in the army. (But I’m not yet 40).

Thanks, Hexuan,

I’ll start a new thread about “testing to become a citizen of Taiwan.” Look for it.

I have a question:

If you have to give up your US citizenship to attain Taiwanese citizenship, can you ever get your US citizenship back?

And … they could refuse giving you a US visa … :wink:

I’ve never had a problem getting US visas or with immigration. Haven’t been back since before 9/11, though, so things might have changed.

I tried to work in California post-9/11. I tell you, that ordeal makes the Taiwan visa process seem like good fun.

bushibanned,
Yes “you” could get your citizenship back, but you would not mean more to the system from any other Taiwanese who wants citizenship. You’d have to do the whole rigamarole (whatever that means) and get a green card, live there for at least 280 days per year, etc.

Somehow, it seems that there’s a shortcut with the US government’s “I-130” form. (Search for that in www.state.gov and you should find it). That’s “the letter “I” dash one three zero.” That can give you “Legal Permanent Residence” based on having relatives there. That can get you LPR, but will involve a lot of paperwork on your family’s side. Given that, you’ll have free travel to the US. (That is, upon waiting for a visa number and then attending the interview–probably in Taipei. You might be able to ask for it to be in GaoXiong if you want, but they’re pretty strict and probably won’t listen to anything you have to say–I don’t know.)

After you spend quite a few years in the US, you could sing the national anthem or whatever for them and become a citizen in their little brain-washing ceremony. Then, you’d be “dual citizenship”, if that is really your goal.

When you cancel your US citizenship, they make it clear to you that you will lose ALL rights to US citizenship and become an alien. Many other countries are more friendly about this, but the US is NOT. They are very serious. As I said, getting LPR is a perhaps “short-cut”, not a “loophole.”

I gave up my US citizenship and don’t even consider getting it back. I’m not interested. Poagao said he’s never had problems getting a visa, so I guess that might apply to me, too. I haven’t tried yet.

Getting LPR is advantageous because I could enter the US without question, etc. My cheap-ass parents don’t want to pay the application fee. It’s looking like I may never visit the US again. We’ll have to see how it works out for me to get a visa.

I hope it works out best for you…
]

Congratulations Coolingtower - I’m sure people (especially at AIT) tried to dissuade you, but you stuck at it and well done to you for that.

I too saw you on TV a couple of months back - the old guy who had been here forever would be really interesting to talk to. I think he said his first language is French (Canadian?) and that he learned to speak English after he arrived in Taiwan. Does that mean he speaks Chinglish? :laughing:

Maybe in a couple of years you’ll feel ready to write a book about your experiences becoming an ROC citizen like Poagao. I’ll certainly buy a copy.

I’d love an ROC ID card just for the looks on people’s faces. Walking into a bank/telecom company/government office, waiting for them to start their ‘oh so sorry, you’re a forei…’ spiel only to shut up rapidly when you slap it down on the counter would be priceless. :discodance:

TFT

On Thursday I went into the China Trust bank on Tunhua / Nanking E Rd in Taipei to remit some funds overseas. After filling in the forms the lass at the counter asks me for passport or ARC.

She’s not too shocked when I give her my ID Card ( most people just carry on normally ). But then she asks me to correct the form as I must have written the address for Taiwan incorrectly. I look at the form and tell her it’s all correct.

She turns to ask the other staff which country Alishan is in :loco: :loco:

They burst out laughing and tell her it’s in Taiwan.

I sent money back home last month and my country of nationality (as copied off my ARC) on the receipt turned out to be Iran instead of Ireland. Hope the CIA weren’t watching.

Taifeitang,

The cool old guy on the show was fun to talk with. We spoke English at first and then simply spoke Chinese. I figured we’re both basically “locals”, why not? His English, to me, is surprisingly good considering that he just “picked it up”. He doesn’t speak Chinglish.

I’m putting a book together now, but it’s cartoons that I have drawn about puns of things that sound similar in Chinese. Kind-of an exaggerated example of how things may sound the same to foreigners. After that, I might work on a serious book.

So far, I’ve had my ID card for just over 3 months and the fun of flashing it here and there hasn’t worn out. The best shock-reaction was in GaoXiong airport. I bought a ticket to fly to Jin Men Island. I said “I have reserved a seat” and handed the person my ROC passport and ID card. She said nothing, but there was one second of silent “Oooooh!” That was cool. That was just a few weeks after I was on TV, so I don’t know whether she saw that and recognized me or not.

SPEAKING OF MY PASSPORT:
I lost it! I can’t believe that. I still have my first two ARCs, my original US passport, etc. How could I possibly lose that thing? I think about a week or two after I lost it, I kept thinking it was in my motorcycle when I was home, and kept thinking it was somewhere at home when I was looking in my motorcycle. Finally, I started looking more carefully and couldn’t find it. Off and on I looked for over 3 weeks and decided to get a new one.

I needed to go to a certain police station and fill out two missing item forms. They kept one at the police station and gave me the other one. I took that to a travel agency (I’ve known them for 8 years) and after a day, they called me to say that I needed a document that says that I don’t need to do military service.

Once again, things come in one-year phases. Once you get your ID card, you have exactly one year that you are not at all responsible for military service. (Except the first day you get your ID card, you get a thing in the mail that says you have to go to the military office and kind of like “check in”, on paper. I took care of that). So, I went to the military office to ask for this kind of document. They said they can’t give me one because my first year isn’t up yet.

That “weird year” when you carry a TARC, you’re a national, but don’t have an ID card yet. Then, the first year you carry an ID card, you’re a full citizen, yes, but are not responsible for military service. (Also, you can’t vote until you have had your ID card for 6 months. I wasn’t able to vote in the last election and I’m not sad about that.) So here I am, a 35-year-old male, walking around setting off alarms because my ID card doesn’t have a stamp that I have either completed or don’t need to do military service. The military office told me to get my Hu Ko Ming Bu (Household Registry document that lists everyone in your family and your relationships. I guess that’s what it’s for, anyway. Mine is very simple. I AM my whole family, in Taiwan.) Somehow, that document tells them that I’m not yet responsible for military service.

I got my first ROC passport just after I got my TARC. The only strange part was they gave me an “entry/exit permit” in the back. I’m a national, but still need a permit to leave and enter? Now, I lost that and am trying to get a new one using my ID card. I called the travel agency and said I could give them my Hu Ko Ming Bu. She seemed confused. Then, she called back and said I needed the original, so she must have talked to someone who understood this. Even with an ID card, there are still some first-year growing pains.

My goal: never lose my passport again.

just out of curiosity…

if you renounce your US citizenship and become a Taiwan citizen you obviously will no longer have a SSN in the US…what happens to all that money?

If you then become a US citizen again…do you get the same SSN back, or do you get a new one?

There would be benefits to both cases.

You don’t need to be a US Citizen to have an SSN and benefits. You will keep your number and might keep your benefits even if you lose US citizenship. See this link for details on whether you would be eligible:

ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html

If you renounce your US citizenship, your SSN and money are gone. If you apply for citizenship again, you’ll get a new number. It will probably begin with the number “9”. You’ll be a foreigner at that point. The US government does NOT accept anything or anyone who has previously canceled their US citizenship as anything but “foreigner”.

Social “Security” is a joke anyway–you pay 12% of your income. You want that back? You have to live to be over 600 years old. Good reason to dump what you paid and immigrate to Taiwan.

US gov will increase income tax by 3.7% to support foreign wars this year. Don’t know if that’s true, but if you are in support of this stuff, OK for you.

I am happy not to be funding this stuff.

coolingtower

[quote=“coolingtower”]
US gov will increase income tax by 3.7% to support foreign wars this year. Don’t know if that’s true, but if you are in support of this stuff, OK for you.

I am happy not to be funding this stuff.

coolingtower[/quote]

I’m [i]sooooooo[/i] happy my US tax dollars are being used to protect Taiwan. In spite of the Taiwanese and wannabe Taiwanese.