Income issues for APRC applicants

If I remember correctly…the spouses of TW’ese who are from East Asian nations can get an APRC in just 3 years.

Remember, regardless what the law says, it is up to the person reviewing the paperwork to move it along. I am not sure if there is an appeal process. I was told that since my employer does not report my full wages, and the tax bureau did not know what an amended return was, that I did not qualify to get an APRC. However, I was told to use my wife’s tax return with mine, along with the other goods (house title, etc). Well, when I went in with the paperwork, a different woman took it and told me I could not use the tax return and that I could not get an APRC. I pointed to her co-worker and said she told me I could. She said, literally, “That is what she told you, this is what I am telling you.” I asked if I could change, she said “No.”

Damn. My last year of eligibility. Who did I piss off? I read about people effortlessly getting an APRC and it boggles my mind. I also read about foreigners effortlessly getting credit cards, buying homes and cars, leasing cars. It has all gone tits up for me, and I never get to the income qualification stage. Damn. Bad juju.

This brings up something interesting…why is it easier to get a GC and later citizenship to the US than it is for the reverse, anywhere in the world? Marriage aside, it is easier for someone from, say Canada, or TW, to get a US GC and later citizenship than the reverse.

isn’t it a naturalization? I’ve heard that the spouses of TW’ese who are from East Asian nations often choose becoming roc citizens instead of getting aprc.

is this mean you left taiwan after that? If you have been here continuously, I think you are still eligible. If so, you cannot apply again, once it was rejected?

Aren’t the income criteria different between the spouse of TWnese and other foreigners?

That’s what I was thinking of. That is how I should have put it.

No. I never left Taiwan. I am here and have been for 7 years. As for can I apply again? I have no idea. Tiki or Tina from NIA said No.

I was on a different rant at this point. I was talking about getting a CC or anything from a bank. But, as per APRC, I have no idea. I thought it was different for spouses, but I guess not. It depends who you talk to at NIA, I guess.

I have never heard or read that if once an application is rejected, you can never apply again. Did you do double or triple check?

Are there anyone who applied twice or more?

Financial criteria of two look different on the instruction page. Was your ARC based on employment at the point of application?

As for eligibility, if you have been here past 5 years, you are eligible. Length of continuous stay can be more than 7 yrs. Once your stay is interrupted, it should be applied within 2 yrs.

You were really unlucky at that time.

I think you may apply again, but if not, you might be able to petition.

Regulation for Petitions against Discrimination against People Residing in the Taiwan Area

Though in Chinese only, FAQs on petition
https://www.immigration.gov.tw/lp.asp?CtNode=29665&CtUnit=16417&BaseDSD=7&mp=1&xq_xCat=80

Btw, @yyy, couldn’t you split some posts of @JB_IN_TW and mine on rejection and reapplication of APRC with a proper subject?
many thanks in advance.

I’ll look into it. :slight_smile:

@yyy
Thank you!

@JB_IN_TW,
I did some search in this forum, and it seems there are not few cases of rejection, appeal on it, and getting an APRC. If you still wish to get an APRC, it might be helpful to do some search.

But, first of all, did she accept your application and gave you an official rejection letter? If she didn’t accept your application at the counter, that maybe means you have not applied nor rejected yet on their database. So, I think there must be no problem for your application at any different officer.

This is what happened…

I gathered all the tax stuff, the local police report, household, application, letter from employer. I was told I did not need anything else, since I did not leave the island for any period longer than 3 months and they already had all that on file. Good. According to one girl, Alice, I could use my wife’s tax return to prove income since mine did not state I made enough.

The following week we got a call that said I needed to come in. We arranged a time and went in to talk to Tiki or Tina. She was rather pointed in her statements. She asked if I could speak Chinese, I said a little but I cannot read it too well. She then passed judgement on that, asking me why I hadn’t learned it, I said my schedule does not really allow me to take formal classes. She said something to my wife, who then started to look upset. Ms T had an attitude thing going. Anyway. She brings out this paper that shows the requirements needed for an APRC, including income and asked if I made that amount. I said yes, and gave her the spiel about employers and taxes, and told her what I was told when I brought up the situation with another employee there.

She ignored that or did not hear it, and went after me again asking me why I applied when I do not meet the criteria. Then she laid into my wife, who proceeded to frown and look down at the ground. I again, told her that another employee told me I could use my wife’s taxes to make up the income gap. She asked who I told her and she went off to talk with her she came back a few minutes later, and literally said “this is unacceptable. you do not meet the requirements and I cannot approve this.” Said something to my wife, who did not respond. She gathered up the material and said goodbye and walked away.

That is what happened. It has been about 6 or 7 weeks since. I have not since received any mail from any government agency in TW, except whoever hands out speeding tickets from traffic cameras.

I think if your application was rejected because you were not qualified, you can apply again when you meet the requirements.
If you were eligible, but rejected, i think you can request a rejection letter, and appeal against it.

I cannot find any description, that once rejected, never be able to apply again later.

My beef is not that I got rejected. It is the reasons I got rejected.

I DO make enough to qualify. I make triple the minimum. My employer, no employer I have ever had, reports the full amount. They only report the minimum. They say that is all they are legally required to do. Their accountants back them up. When I complain to the Labor and Tax people, they just shrug and go “Meh. Nothing we can do.” I can’t seem to be able to file an amended return.

Anyway. My beef is, and remains, what is the point of having rules and guidelines and laws, if only later you are told one thing, then something else happens? Also, what is the use to have any of them if no one enforces them?

As I was told as I’m in the same boat, all you need to do if you can manage it is have $3M or so in a Taiwan bank account even for a day to show that you have money to support yourself, then they will approve it even if you don’t meet the income requirements.

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If your employeer does direct deposit, can’t you use the individual deposits marked from your employer as evidence of salary? Though I guess that might open you up to tax problems for under-reporting.

…The rules are there for show, they have to be, but are not followed out in Taiwan. It’s a case if they like you or not. If you have a always moody person at the front desk, you’ve had it.

Another possibility:

Anyone applying for permanent residency under circumstances other than the ones states in the preceding subparagraph shall meet one of the following conditions.

a. Having earned an average monthly income in Taiwan for the past one year that is twice as much as the Monthly Minimum Wage promulgated by the Council of Labor Affairs.
b. Having movable or immovable property in Taiwan with a total estimated value of over NT$5,000,000.
c. Having a certificate issued by the ROC government certifying that its holder is a professional or technician or has passed a technical examination.
d. Other conditions as approved by the NIA.

If your wife or her family own property that’s worth at least NT$5 million, that can be used in lieu of an income statement.

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Ah yes, thanks for the correction. I thought it was $3M but $5m is correct.

Even if someone lends you the money for one day to show it, it will work.

Id just go back to nia and just ensure you don’t get that nasty woman again. At my local nia it’s so busy and has so many agents you can just come back another day and get someone else

It may be that T小姐 just hates you, but did you ask her for a rejection letter? Did you at least ask her to cite the 法律依據 of the rejection?

I DO make enough to qualify. I make triple the minimum. My employer, no employer I have ever had, reports the full amount. They only report the minimum. They say that is all they are legally required to do. Their accountants back them up. When I complain to the Labor and Tax people, they just shrug and go “Meh. Nothing we can do.” I can’t seem to be able to file an amended return.

“We’re legally required to commit tax fraud and insurance fraud!” :rofl:

Surely you have evidence of your income, if not from the bank then at least from your monthly pay statements, no? There are bad (and clueless) apples out there for sure, but the whole orchard is not rotten. They have procedures to follow, and they need evidence.

Also, what is the use to have any of them if no one enforces them?

Some people have trouble in the motivation department. Be their ridiculously patient guardian angel, steering them to the righteous path. :angel:

Of course, if you are complicit in fraud you can also get in trouble yourself. For that you should talk to a lawyer.

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It’s the Y!!!

I get that. But, at least get to know me before you hate me.

For who? NIA? I thought of that, but I was told by a nice person that bank statements and paystubs are only “suplimentary” and will not be used to make a final decision. Or, something to that effect. I may have translated it into Jamesese.

How so? Everything I have been told is that it is perfectly legal, 100%. As far as I know, I am just ranting what is going on and complaining how absurd the system appears to be.

That said, I am sure that if the tax/labor/whoever folk decide to clamp down, they will go after the employees first. Easier pickings.

That said, I guess this should have been made into its own topic. A temp topic. Left to whither and die as time goes on.

I guess to tax office. I think there must be a regulation to ammend your income fraudly reported by employers to pay your tax correctly.

Ministry of finance, FQA
Though in Chinese, how to do when you find your salary was grandly reported.
http://www.mof.gov.tw/Detail/Index?nodeid=158&pid=67264
如發現薪資被虛報時,應如何處理?
民眾接獲國稅局通知綜合所得稅之繳款書及核定通知書,如發現不明扣繳單位列報不明薪資所得,應先確認是否曾於該扣繳單位服務。如未曾於該扣繳單位工作,可檢具未在該處工作之證明,如服役、在學、出國及無兼職可能等證明文件,親至所在地之國稅局填寫制式檢舉書檢舉之;亦可自行書寫檢舉內容並附證明文件,郵寄至戶籍所在地國稅局提出檢舉。

Though, this seems saying on a salary which was reported but actually you didn’t get.

I think anyway, if you go with laws, they must take a legally correct action (in this case, amend your tax report). If not, you can appeal, and eventually they must do that. Of course, if it’s not worth for the time and effort, just accepting it is an option.

Again, the F word. How can it be when employers and accountants say it is perfectly legal? I am just a stupid, old, crusty, pasty-white boy foreigner.

I have said, I tried to file an amended return, but the tax people wanted nothing of it. I was asked “Why?” and when I explained, they just blew it off and said “Don’t worry about it.”

@yyy, Actually, this could be its own thread. “Taxes, The Law and Fraudulent Reporting by Employers.” Probably gonna piss a lot of people off, particularly the anti-taxers on this forum.

It may be legal for some involved in the process (“just following orders”), but at the end of the day, no, of course tax fraud and insurance fraud are illegal. The people deciding to do it probably just don’t expect to get caught.

I have said, I tried to file an amended return, but the tax people wanted nothing of it. I was asked “Why?” and when I explained, they just blew it off and said “Don’t worry about it.”

“Not my department/office/division.” :whistle:

For laobao, it seems they only go after employees for two things: overreporting and refusal to register. Neither of those applies to you. (The wording of Art. 70 of the LIA is slightly ambiguous, but I really wouldn’t worry about it.)

They do go after employers for underreporting (and overreporting), but you need to make sure you’re at the right counter to 檢舉 and have all the necessary documents.

I’m less familiar with tax evasion, but I know they have procedures to follow and 公文s to issue, and some random service counter person is unlikely to know (or care). If you can’t find the right office, there’s a webpage somewhere that lets you report suspected violations, but at least find a competent translator first. If they don’t get all the information they officially need by the official deadline, they’re allowed to drop the case.

There’s something about tax penalties in the Income Tax Act, but I would still ask a lawyer. Presumably it counts in your favor if you’re the one reporting it.

You know the irony of all this is that my wife’s uncle was a Tax Bureau chief. I have meet the guy a few times, but we never “talked shop.” He doesn’t like talking about work outside of work.

The gist I get from it is that the tax/labor folks know what is going on, they are just powerless to do anything about it. They lack either the direct oversight, or the funding, or both to go after the scofflaws. My first school got away with it by, effectively laundering the schools income through another business. They did it openly. I guess everyone found a loophole and is exploiting it. Until someone big is caught up in it, there will be no change.

My ass is covered, so to speak. I am ignorant at this and I have no want to be a whistle-blower.

In the ol’ US of A, being a whistle blower automatically blacklists you from damn-near any employment, regardless of the justification for your reporting. I have no reason to think TW would be any different. No thanks. I am 47, and at my age its hard enough to find a job, especially since I have already been told I am too old by some schools.