Is the Bible anti-gay?

I agree, it would be as sillly saying zues was throwing thunder and lightning because I don’t understand it yet. But the question isn’t how that makes me wonder the existence of a god or gods. It’s more the fact I believe truth can be known and the universe is orderly. And the question of why it’s like this. It doesn’t have to be.

And it’s actually the increased knowledge of the universe that makes me wonder. We’ve made sense of what seemed like complete chaos years ago and found order. It’s actually beautiful seeing it.

And I don’t know is actually a really good answer. Our finite minds probably couldn’t know everything. But it’s still the first thought that came to the minds of every great thinker who looked at something and wonder how it worked and realized he doesn’t know. Admitting you don’t know is the first step to discovery and knowledge.

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I didn’t say it did. Many things can happen when energy is introduced to a system.

Apparently, it’s true. A sea comb seems the next most likely possibility

People seem to suggest it does sometimes. I don’t believe we have any idea what the possibilities even could be.

I’ve thought on your posts about the morality for a while, and now came up with the conclusion that what you call God might be what I say nature. Nature created us with an instinctive morality, and we have developed it in our societies. Without the instinctive morality given by nature, our societies could be more chaotic.

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Some people are happy to imagine “God” this way. It’s also a common trope in fiction (Star Wars, Avatar). It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that the universe, or nature, might embody some sort of collective consciousness.

I’ve met quite a few people over the years who are clearly descended from sponges. So I’ll take your word for it :slight_smile:

The more amusing version would have humanity descended from a discarded alien bath sponge, but I suppose we’d then have to explain where the aliens came from.

I’m glad I gave you some platform to think about things more. I think for most, they don’t like to have these conversations. For one it’s difficult, and probably because it’s really uncomfortable questioning your entire belief system.

Not mine! Just relating what the fellows with the science degrees seem to think. There seems to be a pretty strong consensus there certainly that evolution traces back to very basic life forms. There things get murky, but as I said, none of it would have been imaginable say 200 years ago. How much more will we know in 100 (if we haven’t poisoned ourselves?)

The more amusing version would have humanity descended from a discarded alien bath sponge, but I suppose we’d then have to explain where the aliens came from.

Indeed, that’s the problem with such intended explanations.

I feel like your arguement is really weak and doesn’t resolve my issue on morality. For most, what you say makes sense. But let’s say we can quantify pleasure and pain/discomfort. If for some reason my fucked up mind thinks the the pleasure of mass murdering outweighs the consequences of discomfort. Why wouldn’t someone who thinks that way not do it? you’re also assuming I care about being around long enough for the consequences. If this is it, and I realized that mass murdering can bring me the most pleasure in this whole world than anything in a entire lifetime can do. Why wouldn’t I choose to just mass murder and end my life and avoid the consequences?

This actually makes a lot of sense. The resemblance is pretty striking.

image

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They sometimes do, in fact. Do you mean, why would it be considered immoral?

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Sure, but really why do we even care? Life is fleeting away, seems like a waste of time even talking about it.

We care because we’re social animals and it’s in our nature. If everyone walked around not caring about anything, we wouldn’t be what we call humans.

Surely some of us might not be wired the same mentally. Some probably have a intrinsic want for things that may be morally wrong from minor to things like mass murder. Or maybe circumstances impacted someone to do bad things to a point it becomes almost inevitable. Idk, I still don’t buy that it’s just a social thing to help us interact.

If leaps of faith and magical thinking are the defining characteristics of religion then science has indeed become the new religion for many in the post-religious era and these sciencetarians are on shaky ground when they mock religions for their leaps of faith and magical thinking.

The firm belief, for example, that the link between sea sponges and Albert Einstein will one day be described entirely in terms of natural processes is a leap of faith every bit as broad as the belief that a supreme being created life, despite the fact that the starting and ending points are organisms.

A more rational approach suitable to the actual accomplishments of science would be to believe that science may not hold the answer to everything, just as religion does not hold the answer to everything, the age of the earth, for example.

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Perhaps it helps to pinpoint a exact religion you are talking about. There’s a significant difference between using Zeus to understand lighting and contemplating the existence of a higher being for ontological dilemmas science can’t answer. Science and religion have been tied hand to hand. Why do you think they are mutually exclusive. Scientists considered themselves philosophers of the natural world in the west for a long time. It’s from a historical standpoint the driving force of pushing us into modern science.

Here are my :2cents:

I see the Bible as sort of map, which might help you find your way to whatever destination you wish to go.

Now, this map was drawn a long time ago. If you look at a geographical map that was created at the same time you might find it quite inaccurate compared to a map that was drawn today with the help of satellite images and what not. That doesn’t mean that you won’t be able to find your way from A to B with the help of a map that is 2,000 years old, but the likelihood that there might be some inaccuracies is rather high.

What do you want from a road map? Basically, your location, your destination, and how to get from the former to the latter. On a map drawn 2,000 years ago, for example of the Roman Empire, you might be able to find your location, let’s say Rome, and your destination, let’s say Carthage. Now the problem is what’s in between, like roads, harbors, etc. Over the last 2,000 years many things have changed. Maybe not the location of your starting and end points (though Carthage is long gone), but what is in between, and of course the modes of transportation. If you look on a very old map, you won’t find airports, for example, so you might decide to take the land route first and than the ship across the Mediterranean. Someone who would plan a trip by only looking at that old map, perhaps with the help of an ancient-map expert, and not consulting other sources of information that have become available in the last 2,000 years would be rather silly, wouldn’t he?

Now, the Bible is not a road map, and your destination is a bit less precise (Heaven?). But what the book definitely cannot provide is information about important factors that could influence your journey, in many ways, technology for example.

How do you make decisions in your life relying on a map/guide that does not give you specific advice on how to decide in situations that would not have occurred in ancient times? You can rely on the help of “map experts” (pastors, priests, scholars, the Pope, etc.), but what if these experts contradict each other and the common ground they can agree upon is so small that you cannot base your decision on that? Now you have to choose, one sect or another, one interpretation or another, for example a sect that sticks to every single word in the Bible, believing that it was written (and translated) with the help of the Holy Spirit and therefore must be all true; or a sect that interprets the scriptures more loosely (cherry picking the things they like and ignore the rest basically).

Is the Bible anti-gay? Unless it says word by word “Being gay is wrong” or something along those lines, it’s all up to interpretation of the words that are available. Like with an old road map, you have to do a lot of guessing. And one’s you open the gates to interpretation, it becomes everyone’s guess really. Depending on your background (education, people around you, personal experience, etc.) you will interpret those words in certain ways or you will listen to someone you trust who interprets them in his or her own way. And there will never be a final official answer to that question, unless Jesus or Moses, or someone with that kind of authority, appears and makes a final judgment.

For me the Bible gives me some general guidance (love and forgive) and some strict rules (don’t kill other human beings), but not much more. And I think that is already quite a lot. If everyone who says he/she is a Christian would just do those three things, LOVE, FORGIVE, DON’T KILL always and without exception, we would live in a very different world.

When it comes to homosexuality, how about focusing on the first and indisputable task asked from any Christians, LOVE. Whether you are straight or gay, love your fellow human beings, without exception. Don’t hate.

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what’s “the bible”?

Definitely. But most of us aren’t wired to kill each other obviously. That wouldn’t be good for any species, and higher animals usually don’t. As a social species, we place a higher value on group cooperation than other species. You might say it’s been a key to our undeniable success. Getting along with each other is in our blood.

Pray to the Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
– John 14:26

I prayed to the Holy Spirit, for example, for guidance when my mother was telling me I had a Christian obligation to forgive a sibling who was abusive towards her and using her financially. What I learned was that, yes, we have an obligation to forgive, but only those who sincerely ask for it. Even God doesn’t automatically forgive those who don’t want nor ask for forgiveness though he always forgives those who sincerely ask for it.

I thought it was because of our mutated thumbs.

And I don’t know if we are the best species to point to for group cooperation.

Really? Some animals form simple groups like packs, but what animals form the kind of complex cooperative social structures that we do?