I have no idea.
I think for her, the main thing is. She isn’t interested in working in shanghai or a future there. I wish she actually knew what she wants to do and where. Because she isn’t even sure she will stay in taiwan for school or life after.
My father’s a bit against going to China for me unless it’s a big company because he says living and working there for ROC citizens and foreigners can be dangerous navigating legal issues thats work related. I have no idea if it’s true. He personally had 7 workers being jailed there for smuggling un taxed imported machinery or something. And could only pay and bribe for 4 of them to sneak back. And there was nothing he could do or pay for the 3 that are still in jail. So he’s worried any legal problems with the PRC, my position could make me a target. Can anyone add any input on this?
@GooseEgg have you ever heard of situations like this?
I don’t think you will have any problems unless commit a crime there or get involved in politics , reporting or certain sensitive areas like pharmaceutical distribution .
For big business people life is always a lot more complicated.
1 Like
But does she like the language and culture? If money isn’t the issue, she doesn’t need to study something just for the sake of her career-that-she’s-not-really-sure-about-anyway. As a bonus, Chinese may turn out to be useful for her career at some point.
This is a tough one.
All I can say is the old maxim where there is a will there’s a way.
But probably your girlfriend needs to figure out what she wants to study first and where she wants to spend the next 3 or 4 years.
The Shanghai gig could be something you do for a year or two whatever happens.
Then when your gf is setup wherever you look at the options again.
I have heard of situations like this, but I, fortunately, do not have any first hand experience.
I came to understand that anything - good and bad - was possible in China. And while the “good” is going to be limited, things could get really really seriously good in that brief time, and so it could very well be worth it. On the flip side, really stupid crazy stuff could happen to you at any given moment.
Now, I happily lived in the bubble in Shanghai that is bounded by Zhongshan Road in Puxi and those select areas in Pudong. There were plenty of things to keep me preoccupied on a day-to-day, project-to-project, career-to-career basis. It was easy to not think about worst case scenarios and what happens when all hell breaks loose. I also spent a bit of time involved in different charitable and non-profit activities - so it wasn’t as if I had no idea how the other half lived. But I knew enough how to keep out of trouble most of the time and I crossed my fingers the rest of the time.
We all have our own “WTF is this?” stories. Soon after I first moved over there, I got into a dispute with realtors who were trying to squeeze me over the first apartment I rented. Long story short, they were threatening me with some kind of legal action because I ended up renting a place with the help of other realtors so the first ones demanded I meet them at the local police precinct. I don’t recall the details anymore, but I remember feeling like I was being scammed and being worried that the local cops were in on it - plus all those horror stories we hear in Taiwan about how stupid things happen in China all the time. The situation was resolved after I first consulted a family friend who had more experience living in China, and he advised me to go ahead to the police precinct and hear out what the realtors wanted - basically, an arbitration. The police convinced me to give the first realtors half of the commission amount and thereby avoid a long bureaucratic process.
In short, are your dad’s concerns unfounded? No. But I also wouldn’t worry about it, if you quickly build a network of people (resources) who are savvy with how to get things done on the local level. NOTE: with all due respect, when I went over there, I had a lot more work/life experience than you have and with that some pretty diverse personal networks (work-, school-, family-, church-, embassy-related). None of that was on my mind when I decided to go there, but looking back, it certainly was good to have.
I encourage you to go, because living well in Shanghai is awesome. That’s true anywhere in the world, but Shanghai is kind of at the top of the heap in this time zone in a lot of ways. Like I said, no one asks you why you went to Shanghai.
2 Likes
Would say most don’t know Taiwan has its own passports
For people that have lived there. Would you say 15k RMB base salary a month with commission, bonuses if I hit my quarterly targets set in either cash or if I want to commit shares in the company. Giving me a 3 month trial and allowing me to renegotiate for more something thats good enough where I’m not struggling? I am 25, without kids.
15K is not enough. Look for 25k after tax. Shanghai is expensive and the quality of life isn’t that good on that salary
That’s what I asked for when I was interviewing for jobs in China recently. I didn’t get the jobs, so what do I know.
It’s about 70k NTD. I would say thats good in Taiwan for someone who’s 25 without a degree with a house, no kids.
I’m just wondering HOW expensive is shanghai compared to taiwan really?
I make like 30-60 here depending on projects and how much I really want to work. A lot of it untaxed also.
But I guess since they give me commission and bonuses I can make more and shares in the business is not bad. They’ve told me they would really like me to become a partner moving forward if it turns out to be something both sides benefit from.
Its very similar to living in Taipei if you don’t live the expat lifestyle with the bars, restaurants, foreign schools etc.
The supermarkets and transport and clothes and services, really not much difference in reality.
How long is a piece of string I guess , depends on your lifestyle expectations .
Anyway I found the apartment rental prices reasonably similar to Taipei if you live in Pudong . In the central areas they are going to very expensive I guess.
You are not going to save anything on 70k if you have to pay rent.
But you could get started and see where your future takes you. Taiwan won’t pay any more either .
I guess the major selling point on this is, There is almost nothing here in taiwan. Unless I go into my dad’s company, which honestly isn’t doing that great anymore in the manufacturing sector. I’ll probably never get much of a career here. I have a chance to build there, and get connections with the job, have a future working in something that I won’t wake up and hate.
It’s also a chance to take a risk for me and get out to a bigger pond to swim in and see what the world holds. I feel so trapped in my comfortable Taipei bubble.
And it’s a damn cool job to work for one of the nicest gyms i’ve seen working with pro athletes, MMA leagues, and celebrities and models.
Just do it. Go and get by on the salary for a year and then look at your options. The hardest part will just be getting there and learning the lay of the land.
I couldn’t get the companies I was interviewing for to pay me what I wanted. If they don’t know you, it’s difficult and I came with recommendations.
There is nothing really here. If you are ambitious, China is a better place to be. Chinese bosses are often young and hungry and willing to take risks. Opposite of Taiwan in that respect
2 Likes
Could also look at it this way. How much will you be kicking yourself if you don’t give it a shot? That’s kinda what I said about moving to Taiwan. Had to try it and see for myself. If it didn’t work out, I could always move back. That was 7 years ago…
1 Like
Looks like you already made up your mind. 
I had friends who worked in Shanghai before being assigned to Taipei. The only thing they miss about Shanghai was the pay, as they could save more there than they could here. But they prefer living in Taipei because it’s cleaner and there’s no great firewall of China. Also, the people here are nicer and better to get along with.
As for the workplace, they mostly like it better there, maybe because most of the local workforce is young including the managers. There’s also a bigger expat community that works in different industries so there’s lots of cultural exchange happening.
As an expat working in Taiwan, before moving here I know nothing about the island. But I went for it anyway and I’m glad I did. This is an experience I’ll never regret, despite all the shitty people I met.
If I were in your shoes, the package would make or break it for me. The others are pretty manageable once you’re there.
I keep going back and forward to be honest. I’m usually pretty decisive and just stick with something. But it sucks that my gf won’t come. She’s been putting on her A game lol. Cooking huge delicious meals, being extra nice to me. I’m a pretty simple man. Food is the way to my heart. I think she’s trying to make me fat so I won’t leave her for other girls in shanghai. Came home to dinner to a home made burgers and baked sweet potato fries she made yesterday next to my TV with Netflix ready. And it’s been like this for a week.
Some friends there have told me in China have said they probably wouldn’t go again and hate the food there. So I’m not sure what to think. It’s a good opportunity for sure. It would be a sure deal if my life in taiwan isn’t so good. I got the whole floor in the city. There’s a freakin Suana in my bathroom! Non of it is from own achievements sure. And I’m ok with leaving it. But china is a hard sell to leave it for. If it’s like in NY or LA, Rome, Paris, Tokyo etc. yeah. I would go.
1 Like
Some questions you can think about asking them if you feel they are relevant. Don’t answer them here, but you probably want to have some idea about some of them:
-
Are you getting paid off-shore: HK or Taiwan? Or partially offshore?
-
How much of the RMB 15k is taxed? Is that 15k nett? Or that before the 25% in taxes that you will likely have to pay?
Or how much will you be paid as “expenses”? So they might pay you 9k (subject to 20% tax) and then you provide receipts worth 6k every month. If you don’t actually generate that amount of consumption, you can buy fapiaos in a kind of blackmarket (when I was there, going rate was 3% to 5% of face value) -
Health insurance is usually part of the package - what do they offer their staff? If you need medical attention, what private hospitals or insurance plans will cover you? Will they extend coverage to your girlfriend? Do they normally send their people to hospitals that are in Taiwan’s BNHI system (they issue receipts that can be reimbursed here at BNHI)
-
As @ranlee pointed out - will they give you home leave to Taiwan, how much and how often? Will they give you/your girlfriend home leave to Europe (her parents are there, right?)
-
They are offering you shares in the gym/company. Where is the company incorporated? Presumably, it’s a (A) wholly-owned Foreign Entity (WOFE) controlled by a (B) HK company, that is owned by other © offshore companies. Your stake is A B or C? Why does this matter? Just as a way of checking how “real” this perq is - if it’s A, where will that leave you? If it’s B or C, that’s a lot more meaningful, but only if you really think this company is legit and going to make money down the road.
-
Since they are offering housing, ask to see it. Is the commute easy? Maybe a car+driver part of the package - there could be a company care, not one just for you. It’s one thing to be set up in the middle of the French Concession nearby to the US ambassador’s residence, and whole other thing to be stranded in the middle of nowhere in Pudong. Shanghai is cold in the winter - like a real winter - so ask if the housing is not in a nice building, your heating (think utilities) will become an issue by Christmas.
These calculators seem up-to-date and useful
http://www.expertsrc.com/expertsource-media-page-102168
This looked useful, too:
http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2015/01/28/paying-foreign-employees-individual-income-tax.html
BOTTOM LINE: I WOULDN’T SWEAT THAT PACKAGE - NOT AT 25 YEARS OLD. By your 6th month, you should have built an interesting social network that should lead you to more and greater opportunities.
5 Likes
Thanks for that @GooseEgg
The majority share holder of the gym is a friend of mine so we’ve been pretty informal about things. We’ve worked together before and i’ve not had an issue with being cheated and cheaped out on. The opposite in fact. But I should try to find out more clearly about certain things that you mentioned that I haven’t thought about.
The gym is in Gubei, too many gyms in Pudong. So i’ll be living very near the gym, and he asked me to come with him this week to look at places to stay in and get a peak at the gym. But i’m not sure I can make it this week getting the ROC passport/台胞證 in time. Not sure how much you know about Gubei and what it’s like there. I heard it’s a large expat location.
Perhaps he’s afraid of you becoming the next Ko Chen-tung or Jaycee Chan. 
Those sirens still walk the streets plying their trade, do they? 
I would have thought the Chairman had sent them all indoors by now, but then again it’s a big city. (I never partook, of course. 
)