Criminalizing sex for money between consenting adults has one purpose: to perpetuate women’s sexual power over men, just as anti-abortion laws were meant to allow men to control women’s bodies before those laws were rightfully repealed.
Sex workers themselves are rarely consulted before self-appointed do-gooders, speaking and acting for them, pass laws to “protect them” based on the myth of the universal sex worker victim.
Several sex workers say that they feel used by politicians, feminists and the media. They think
that sex workers are only listened to and being paid attention to if they say the correct things,
i.e. that they find prostitution appalling, that they are victims, that they have stopped selling
sex and will never go back, and that they are grateful to the current prostitution policy and to
the policy makers.
Sex workers feel overlooked in decision-making processes regarding juridical changes etc.,
something they find undemocratic. They question whether any other social group would have
been so consistently excluded from any relevant policy making process
The sex workers report having had very little or no help from the social authorities and in any
case, they would rather be left alone by them. Some believe women wishing to leave sex work
can in some instances get adequate help from the social authorities.
Most of the sex workers I have interviewed reject the idea that there is something intrinsically
wrong with their profession, or that they should be subjected to therapy or retrained in order
to work as something else. They also consider this to be a treatment that would not be foisted
upon other professional groups. Sexworkers say that contrary to the official belief, they are
not the victims of their customers, but victims of the state. This is not only because they are
not listened to, or that the state puts them into dangerous situations and forces some of them
to become affiliated with the criminal world, but also because the overall situation makes it
impossible for them to be open about their work, speak out against injustice and to organize themsleves.
“It empowers them, but they weren’t consulted about whether they wanted to be empowered, so shame on the people who empowered them without their consent!”
I think prostitution is a gross industry, but by implying all prostitutes are victims, you’re robbing them of their agency. The ones who are victims are usually the ones here and in other unregulated Asian countries that use victims of trafficking, or have abusive pimps and madames. Ones in legalized countries, like in the Netherlands, treat it like any heavily regulated industry with safeguards, protection, and zero coercion. At least in areas where it’s run like any legal industry, the workers are doing it because they like the money, or the lifestyle, and if they’re free to leave whenever they want and proper protection is provided then that’s their choice. Would I be happy if my daughter decided to become a prostitute in a country where it’s legalized? Hell no! But I wouldn’t be happy if she decided to become a stripper, or a circus clown, or an extreme sports daredevil, or a Big Tobacco lobbyist, or one of a hundred other legal professions. But in the end it’d be her choice, and if I can’t talk her out of it I’d have to accept it. Aren’t feminists and progressives all about respecting agency and choice? How is this any different? (And again, I don’t apply the above to countries where it’s illegal and abuse is rampant.)
Have you ever actually met a sex worker or is your leash too short? There are plenty of them in Taiwan. They’re generally young and attractive and in the business because of the financial freedom it gives them. The women who are threatened by them and want to criminalize their work are women with families who aren’t so young and attractive. They know that if men are freely able to have sex with young and attractive women for money their financial well-being and that of their families will be threatened because why would men want to commit themselves and their financial resources to them when they could have something more desirable? These women and the yappy little beta males so eager to please them consequently have created the myth that all sex workers are slaves who need to be rescued by criminalizing their work and arresting their customers.
I’m a Christian and believe that sex work is morally wrong. I also believe that abortion is wrong. I don’t believe that my personal agenda should be imposed on others though by force of law but I recognize, probably as well as anyone, when others with ulterior motives are trying to do so.
You could have avoided the full-length rant by changing
Criminalizing sex for money between consenting adults has one purpose: to perpetuate women’s sexual power over men
to
Criminalizing sex for money between consenting adults has one purpose: to perpetuate ugly women’s sexual power over men
or better yet
Criminalizing sex for money between consenting adults has one purpose: to perpetuate ugly women’s economic power over attractive women
With any of those, you at least have a coherent argument (though not necessarily a convincing one).
As for the average age of prostitutes in Taiwan (or specifically Wanhua), iirc the last discussion we had about that deterioriated so quickly that not even Templand could save it, so I won’t bring that up again.
Just because someone is younger and more attractive doesn’t mean you’re ugly so you’re either not capable of critical thinking or your argument is so weak it relies on misrepresentations.
I wouldn’t be happy, but that’s her choice as an adult to sell something that someone else who is also an adult is willing to buy. They are adults, both can consent to a transaction
Trying to use the law to coerce people to remain pure won’t work as seen from history.
Prostitution is not a choice. Yes, there are escorts who are in it voluntarily, and probably made their decision based on the alleged lucrativity, but you can’t deny that the overwhelming majority are the women who have almost no resources, so they “chose” to sell their body. In Taiwan and Japan most of them come from China or SE Asia; in the Netherlands and Germany, where the business is heavily regulated with safeguards, protection, and zero coercion, they are from Eastern Europe; for Canada, aborigines are overrepresented. If you don’t see the connection between class and prostitution, you must be burying your head under the sand.
If prostitution were simply a choice of lifestyle, why is it that the overwhelming majority of the sex workers female? Out of the very few male sex workers, why do you think that most of them are gay escorts? Why is it that the male population are almost the sole purchasers in this “industry”? The answer is simple: women, especially minority women, and gay men, are far likelier to fall into the position where there’s no other choice but to sell their body out for cash.
You say that because it is highly unlikely that your daughter would fall into that kind of position where she would have to sell sex to survive. Imagine a scenario in which your daughter has no possible source of income, has to live off the street, in Taiwan or in wherever you’re from. Would you still consider it to be her choice as an adult? I don’t think so.
For those of you who keep citing the NL as an example to follow, you should know that Sweden, the country that has actively prohibited prostitution and criminalise the purchasers, has the lowest rate of human trafficking in Europe. Like you said, it’s a business, and business involves supply. Where do the goods come from? Certainly not the pretty college students who’re in it for the fun and the 100 EUR/hr rate.
Oh okay. You literally contradicted yourself in the span of two sentences. So in other words, yes, for some it is a choice.
By the way, finding columns like this literally took me 20 seconds typing key words into Google.
I said twice in my post that Asian countries where human trafficking is rampant are notwithstanding. Please read what I write more carefully so I don’t have to repeat myself.
And? Do you have something against Eastern Europeans? “Zero coercion” literally means “zero coercion.” If there’s a lack of being forced then that means it’s a choice.
Never made that point, but sure invent a new straw-man argument since the original one isn’t working out for you. Class distinctions can also be observed in other professions like working in the fast food industry. But being a fry cook at McDonalds is still a choice, or do you deny that as well?
Because men naturally have a higher sex drive and thus are more likely to hire prostitutes for sex? This is Biology 101.
But with that said, there are PLENTY of male gigolos who service an exclusive female clientele. Do you deny that? Is it a choice for them?
Actually I told you the answer above. And you’re marginalizing and robbing agency of those who choose this profession. Please be more progressive in the future.
You can’t deny that the overwhelming majority of forced marriages happen to women and millions of other women only get married due to economic and social pressures. You may be one of them. Why is that?
It’s time to criminalize marriage and jail men who only want to get married in order to get sex, which is most of us if the truth be told.
Due to the, often, unofficial and undocumented nature of most forced marriages, statistics on forced marriage vary. In 2003, the International Center for Research on Women estimated that over 51 million girls under the age of 18 were forcibly married. Forced and early marriage are most common in impoverished states in Africa, South Asia as well as the former Soviet republics. However, there are still cases of forced and early marriage in more affluent North American and European countries.
I think you guys are missing the point. Prostitution happens regardless of the laws. It whether the laws are helpful or actually harmful in general that should be the concern.
Forced prostitution or sex trafficking is a completely separate issue that needs to be dealt with and I don’t think it’s solved by prostitution laws. You need more laws and resources to crack down on sex trafficking outside of the scope of prostitution laws.
Social economic problems of a country is also an issue, of course of poor countries many women may turn to prostitution, but at the same time men also get a bad hand usually doing hard and dangerous labor for little money. Unfortunately the sad reality is that these may be the only options left to some people and taking it away and may be more harmful. So you need to fix the larger problem of having a more developed economy which is no easy fix.
As @DrewC explained, biology. Men produce more testosterone and androgens. Which results in higher libido, so the desire for sex is higher. That morning wood men get, it’s because we peak testosterone production in the morning. So you see how some of it is just how we are biologically. But at the same time, why do you think in poor countries the overwhelming of hard, long and dangerous manual labor is done by men? Don’t actually see many people up in arms about that. Should we also ban such labors? Maybe one day we can but right now even slapping a bunch of laws and safety requirements may take those jobs away and be moved to places where they don’t have to have them.
Ideally no one should have to prostitute or work dangerous hard labor for little money. I understand why you fee that way, I do too. It’s a do good benelvolent idea. But sometimes the last thing people need is people who have no idea about the reality of these people to come in with our morality and try to do good and pat ourselves in the back.
