Here’s the lad trying to tell me which supermarkets are cheapest, from the other side of the world.
Come on. Research on Somalian family settlement patterns in the north of England. No? You are using net numbers to deny there is any effect on access to health and education on communities. You sound like a Labour Party shill.
Taffy, it’s a good question. ESOL funding now doesn’t exist, apart from for adults in receipt of JSA. This has the effect of dismantling the whole system: primary and secondary teachers with ESOL abilities are rare and getting rarer. More places are being provided via school extensions, and such. There are some amazing school buildings here, built under Labour. However, settlement numbers are less predictable than birthdate data, I guess. There’s a bus that takes a lot of the kids to another school in north Manchester, but that’s hardly ideal for the kids.
There’s a high police presence where I live. It’s kind of dangerous, compared with the 'burbs, I guess.
Health: again, there’s increased funding and my local surgery has had an extension fitted and new GPs, but it’s not enough.
I would imagine because it’s more important to keep funding higher in middle class areas because they have more connections and clout with the media and are more likely to vote. People round here are too busy worrying about the bedroom tax and whether they can get their kid in St Francis’ to kick up much fuss.
Still embarrassed by your utter lack of any empirical knowledge AND research? Come on. Numbers for the west African community in east Manchester. We’re awaiting your research and insight. You just read some articles on the Internet, didn’t you?
As a matter of interest, what percentage of new users, requiring certified translators and ESOL support do you think one GP surgery or one primary school can comfortably assimilate? Gimme a number. Then, google the reality.
Ermintrude, the UK economy is frickin brutal and the problems you are seeing could very well be largely due to changes that have little to do with immigration. I think that’s all people are trying to say. You have some great points no doubt, but you also have to admit that the world doesn’t exist in a vacuum and there are many more things to consider with regards to social problems then the narrow scope you are trying to imply here.
The London riots didn’t come out of a vacuum, there are social and economic problems that are far bigger than immigration problems, immigrants stick out like sore thumbs and have always been an easy target.
The UK budget deficit rocketed just after the financial crisis and now is at something like 80% GDP. The last thing all the middle Englanders and the financial industry would stomach is an IMF or European bailout after all the lectures they gave to the Eurozone members so the government decided austerity was going to happen right now. So that’s what’s been happening, putting the squeeze on spending. The only other avenue, grow your way out of the problem, wasn’t happening. It’s still not clear which solution would be better.
The thing is, British social supports aren’t actually that generous excepting perhaps the national health system.
Of course the other thing is that lots of people want to be part of the EU but don’t want to be a part of the EU at the same time. The Bulgarians and Romanians coming in is a legitimate concern (poorest countries in EU) but since they can’t do anything about them coming in the non-EU immigrants start getting the flack.
Somebody is surprised that the North of England has more problems than a place like Oxford, really?
Just an aside, when you factor in all debt both public and private the UK has the highest debt in the world. It’s nearly 500% of GDP at this point. Obviously this tremendous debt burden is going to show up in the poor area’s of the country far more than in the rich ones. There probably is an immigration element to it, but more than likely it’s just a complete and total lack of money which is causing tangible social issues all around the poorer areas. Very sad, but what can you do? I feel like throwing up road blocks to make it harder for actual citizens to go home and rejoin the work force probably isn’t a good solution.
Somebody is surprised that the North of England has more problems than a place like Oxford, really?[/quote]
No, but you seem to disbelieve that east Manchester has more problems than Tameside or Harpurhey.
You’re not wrong, HH, but you are simply stating the completely fricking obvious middle-class Labour script, verbatim. You are talking about economic stuff, as if it remotely affects people’s lives. No services have been cut here in east Manchester. They’ve been expanded hugely. Libraries, Sure Starts and swimming pools close in semi-poor or lower middle class areas because its easier to get away with.
I know that you won’t accept that ‘micro-influxes’ affect the communities they happen to negatively and I understand why. You’re arguing from an ideological basis (racism bad, criticising immigration policies is racism) and googling numbers to underscore that. Unless you can show that this net immigration is equally spread amongst communities, or that an influx of newcomers doesn’t cause strain, we’re essentially talking at cross-purposes.
The debt is bad, but it’s not causing the situation. Austerity spending measures are just an easy target for Labour, who are manipulating middle-Englanders’ into supporting uncontrolled immigration because it benefits the country’s bottom line, yet doesn’t have any effect on these people’s access to services. It’s very cynical because the ones who raise it are just labelled ‘uneducated, racist chavs’ by these retuperative social climbers who are only two generations out of the mills themselves. (Want to hear why I hate Jamie Oliver? I can connect all this ‘nu snobbery’ stuff like David Icke ). It’s wrong.
As a matter of interest, what kind of rise in percentage of non-English-speaking five year olds do you think a primary school can comfortably support without effect? Perhaps with a school expansion and extra teaching and support staff, and without?
I wonder if you’re able to actually say that out loud without slapping your own mouth for disconnecting itself from your brain
I’ve never been to East Manchester, but I can tell you with utter certainty that some services have been cut there. Revert to my previous post about the UK having the highest combined debt in the world and then tell me that services have not been cut in certain area’s of your country. It’s not equal cuts in all neighborhoods of course but there are cuts across the board and it’s only going to get worse.
sorry for my intrusion, please continue your spirited debate
I wonder if you’re able to actually say that out loud without slapping your own mouth for disconnecting itself from your brain
I’ve never been to East Manchester, but I can tell you with utter certainty that some services have been cut there. Revert to my previous post about the UK having the highest combined debt in the world and then tell me that services have not been cut in certain area’s of your country. It’s not equal cuts in all neighborhoods of course but there are cuts across the board and it’s only going to get worse.
sorry for my intrusion, please continue your spirited debate [/quote]
Services have been increased in my area. New Sure Start, extra GP, primary school recently expanded. Speculate until the cows come home.
You aren’t countering anything with evidence or even experience. You are repeating your prejudices.
Because of course we all know the most indebted nation in the world obviously has plenty of cash to go around right? Services have been increased much like if I give you 5$ but take away 10$ from your neighbors that your neighborhood has become richer. What’s it like living in a world where Economics, statistics, and basic math are irrelevant? But you’re right, I haven’t been there so how could I possibly know anything about a place I’ve never been too right? I suppose it’s all just an unfounded guess that we can’t actually stand on the surface of Saturn right. We have evidence galore proving this, but in the end of course nobody’s ever actually been there ! I’m being cheeky of course but I hope you understand just how silly your argument is of a person having to actually be there in person to speak intelligently about it. What a tremendously slippery slope that is…
Hit me with your last irrational shot, last word is yours. You’re boring
Well, Im not sure how I can pro e that the primary school round the corner had a new wing built, other than by posting photos. You aren’t listening. I can explain, but you just want to give your opinion which is based on google and personal believes that lean towards more open immigration policies.
You aren’t being ‘cheeky’, you are just attempting to use extreme analogies because you think that they make you look witty. The effect of that rhetorical device is that they further expose that you are not anywhere near the detail or the facts. You are over-generalising, based on your political beliefs that x is good and y is bad. You’re also straw manning by saying that the UK has massive debt and this is the reason that communities with high levels of settlers have less access to health and education, despite evident re-corralling of tax resources. Shrug.
I’m moving away from here in two days, anyway. Off to be an immigrant.
). It’s wrong.
You aren’t listening. I can explain, but you just want to give your opinion which is based on google and personal believes that lean towards more open immigration policies.