Lost and Losing Interest

And now an irritating reminder: freelancing without open work rights is illegal. :doh: :sob:

Technically maybe. Practically speaking, the law is nonsense. Let’s say I have a stopover in a Chinese airport and decide to fire up my laptop for a bit of impromptu coding. Would the economics police be justified in dragging me off to the immigration jail for violating work-permit rules? How about if I exit the airport and do the same at my hotel while waiting for a flight the next day? How about if I’m having a holiday and answer an email from my boss?

It’s as long as a piece of string, innit? Several countries take the view that income earned from foreign employers, in a foreign currency, is of no interest to the local authorities, usually on the basis of double-taxation treaties.

I would be one of the last people to defend the current work permit system. It is what it is though, and I’m not sure OP wants to be the next Mr. Whetham.

I just can’t see it happening. The ‘digital nomad’ phenomenon is very real and most jurisdictions take the view that “it is what it is”, and are content to color within the lines.

Of course, the Uber brouhaha suggests that Taiwan is not one of those jurisdictions. There have certainly been cases of people deported for innocuous activities that could be loosely construed as “employment”. However, those have invariably been people doing real, physical things in Taiwan, with Taiwanese people (and you can stop sniggering at the back there).

Internet-based work is a really snarly grey area. For example, if you were a US citizen working for a US employer, while being physically present in Taiwan, you’d be obliged to pay taxes to the US government. Double-taxation treaties would kick in, and usually the only thing the government cares about in such cases is the tax take. I do realise, of course, that tax violations and immigration violations are two different things - it’s just that where money is involved the government magically becomes a lot more interested in prosecutions, even when it’s a piddling amount.

Oh btw, have you heard from London? How’s the appeal going? :trollface:

(This is Temp, after all…)

Who’s that?

No idea. I was referring (in the above post) to the government’s ridiculous gripe against the Uber food delivery service (“they only use motorcycles and refuse to use other kinds of transport” - FFS people, scraping the bottom of the legal barrel much?). But I guess even in temp one should avoid drifting OT…

I’ll always remember the western lady on an episode of Banged Up Abroad (or one of those shows) who, being arrested at the airport in Bangladesh (or somewhere) for smuggling, tried to talk her way out of it like this.

Police: You’re under arrest! :policewoman:

Smuggler: But my flight is about to leave! :astonished:

Police: Forget about your flight. You’re going to jail! :angry:

Smuggler: Oh no, you don’t understand! I can’t stay in the country. My visa expires today! :scream:

Police: Don’t be stupid, miss! You don’t need a visa to go to jail! Ha ha ha ha ha! :smiling_imp:

Mutatis mutandis…

Nomad: Oh no, you don’t understand! I pay tax to a foreign government, so I can’t be deemed a person working in Taiwan!

Whether or not the government will take interest is not something you can always predict. They do have a financial incentive to go after small fish, namely the fines they can impose (and the image they can project to the public – we’re keeping the country safe! etc.). People in general have an incentive to report illegal foreign workers, namely the percentage of the fines they can receive (and they may derive satisfaction even without the money, and they may be competitors and so on).

@DrewC

What you’re basically saying is that bad governments can make pretty much anything appear illegal. And of course that’s true, and it’s not limited to the third world (Pakistan etc). Some of the most egregious examples happen in the “developed” world. The Uber food-delivery case is an absolutely classic example. The US and Europe are rife with legislative hocus-pocus.

However, I’m pretty confident that freelancing for foreign employers while being temporarily resident in Taiwan could not be construed as illegal. Consider: when someone comes to Taiwan on holiday, they’re still employed, albeit on annual leave from their (foreign) employer, and being paid (for doing nothing). If someone comes here on a tourist visa for business meetings with local companies, or to offer technical support to local customers, nobody cares. Those people are obviously “working”. It’s quite clear from such examples where the line is drawn in reality.

Whether governments may choose to stretch the rules like bubblegum and slap you down is a risk you take whenever you step outside of the 9-to-5, two kids and a mortgage, Reginald Perrin daily grind. Whetham, for example, might have faced various sorts of persecution in any random country simply for being an artist, a threat to the Harmony of Society. Fundamentally, Governments get uncomfortable with people who ignore the presence of Government.

Freelancing for local employers, with payment in NT$: whole different kettle of lawyers.

Well no, Comrade Finsky, that’s not what I’m saying.

The trouble with appraising an alleged line is that you can easily slip into a but Fred got away with it situation. Everyone does demos with real students without a work permit, so it’s de facto legal, except that it’s not legal, and people do get arrested for it. The authorities don’t hang around buxiban reception areas waiting to pounce, but if they did, you can bet those real student demos would be much rarer.

When the law isn’t clear enough (if attending a job interview isn’t work, what about a meeting to discuss business opportunities? etc.), jurisprudence and official interpretations (函釋) matter. Hearsay is unreliable.

Freelancing is usually defined as working for someone other than an employer (or as being self-employed).

If you can find an official statement that (as far as work permits are concerned) it makes a difference where the client is located or what currency is used, please share.

I also feel you need to sort out your issues, set priorities, and make a concrete and realistic plans, as someone(s) already said.

Some points I understood from your posts are,

You came to Taiwan to get away from a bad situation in US, so going back is not your option.

You have a desire to get a math degree, and work in a related field in future.

Teaching is not your passion, but a way to earn money at this moment.

You like Taiwan.

Here are several questions, which are not that I want to know your answers, but I think you should clearly know by yourself.

You surely need to be out of US? Just moving to any different state in US is not enough?
You will never go back to US, or will be back at some point?
Getting a citizenship or permanent residency of another country is your plan?

What timespan do you have in your mind to prepare for the grad school? 3, 5, or 10 years?
Do you have any specific school in your mind?
Should the school be out of US too?
Are there any scholarships you can apply?

Saving money for grad school is the most important thing for a few years, or enjoying life is more important even if you need more years to get enough money for the school?

I read your post asking which of job and place is more important. That depends on your priority, so you should decide it by yourself.

It seems you currently have too much time to overthink which
is a part of your immediate problem. I think learning Chinese would be a good way to kill the time as ironlady recommended. Many people came here and pay money just to learn Chinese.

Having a girl friend might increase uncertainty and reduce flexibility of your life plan. If I were you, I would first make a concrete short term plan, then think on getting a gf.

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from what i learned from this forum, doing work while physically in taiwan for overseas employers and getting paid by them could get you taxed, if you are earning huge amount.

You have great insight and thank you for asking questions. You are right, having a job is most important, because I want my own life, self-esteem, and don’t want to go back to home. You are right, a girl is not super important right now, I just meant when I have a job. :slight_smile:
Thanks you for your advice

Hi guys, I am sorry to keep bothering you. I just wanted to let you guys know I have an interview for an ALT position in Japan on Monday.

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Hi @padraig I read most of the topic (it was long :)), it is hard for someone to give advice online to people they never met, but to me you lack self confidence and maybe "escaped’ the US, thinking that your self confidence issues would stay in the US!!

Best advice I could give you, you have to work on your problems on the inside, think differently , and be positive. Great that you may have a job offer in Japan, but again, don’t think moving to another country (again!) will solve your depression.

And I couldn’t agree more with @Icon the worst advice is to get a girlfriend when one feels depressed, a girlfriend is not to cure depression, you cure it by yourself. You have to keep busy, keep trying, try hard so even if you fail, you will find (small) satisfaction for having tried your best. You have nothing to lose.
Watch positive videos, positive movies, meet positive people. And everything will get better!
Good luck :slight_smile:

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Thank you @junoreactor. That is great and really thoughtful advice and insight.

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