Major Depression


#41

You have some very kind words and good advice above, JeffG. But I'm not sure I can agree with the quoted part here. People respond differently to treatments, and for some, medication is the right answer. For others, cognitive behavioral therapy or other 'talking cures' are best. The general consensus in the field, last I was reading on it, was that a combination of medication plus other therapy was, overall, most efficacious for the greatest number of folks. There are times when increasing, not decreasing dosage is best. But your comments, which I assume to be a reaction against the unfortunate trend in our society to throw a pill at everying, are certainly well taken. In some cases, pills aren't the answer. Personally, I believe that if you find a really good caregiver who is somewhat conservative about medication (i.e., reluctant to overmedicate), then you can let her or him help you reach the decision that is right for you as an individual.


#42

As in another post, see this website, if you choose to do it, you MUST follow the directions exactely! I just did ten days of it, it isn't easy and a few days after I had some electrolyte imbalances, but got them under control and I feel pretty good now.

This is not only a parasite cleanse, keep that in mind.

falconblanco.com/health/clea ... leanse.htm

I will try to get more information on the site, if you should have questions you can PM me in the meantime.


#43

Jeff,

That's the Master Cleanser and I did it. While I couldn't stomach the salt water flush, I did do the tea . I HATEED IT. I was hungry the whole darn time.

We i've gotta talk

Desperate


#44

Are you in Taiwan now? We can chat by phone if you'd like.


#45

I'm going to be restrained in response to this quote, just in case I am misunderstanding what the meanings of "therapy" and "parasites" are. Drugs are not things to be feared; they are to be used with professional advice with the view to stopping their use at the earliest time as advised by doctors or psychiatrists. "Cognitive therapists" are NOT qualified to advise on this matter unless they have the appropriate medical training and the authority to prescribe.

Psychoactive drugs are not perfect, but it is gravely irresponsible to turn them into an ideological issue, especially if a consequence of this is to turn a person suffering depression away from the people who are probably the most knowledgeable about the widest variety of treatments.

"Parasites"? What on Earth is this referring to and how is it related to depressive disorder? I strongly advise anyone who reads this and is unsure about what is going on to consult appropriately qualified people and not rely entirely on groups such as the one cited, which includes the following paragraph on its website:

Need I say more? Buyer beware. JeffG, you may be well intentioned, but I object to you mixing up depressive illness with existential angst, because the consequences for some people could be regrettable


#46

I never said that it was a replacement of drugs, did I? And Depression is a serious disorder that should not be taken lightly. And a well trained cognitive behavioral therapist can assist in this matter. Some of which are medical doctors as well. Drugs can be good if taken responsible and as instructed, but some are worse than others. Those persons who suffer from problems in Taiwan are often misled by doctors here as many are not well trained. There are certain psychoactive drugs that are prescribed in Taiwan like candy for various issues that have nothing to do with psychological problems. Cognitive behavioral therapy has been proven far more successful in treating people with depression than with just taking medication.

I also did not say I am a doctor. People are smart enough to realize that information on the internet is for themselves to judge.

As for parasites... Doctors have been telling us for years that medication is the only way to "cure" or "treat" illnesses, diseases, etc.. Unfortunately in many instances drugs are ineffective or useless. Doctors often cannot even diagnose a problem or simply only try to treat the symptoms. Why is it millions of people suffer from disorders like depression, some recover, some do not while taking medications. Why is it that it takes years to help treat depression with little result in some instances? There are underlying causes of these problems. Anxiety, depression and OCD all very related. There are some cases that have shown parasites to cause anxiety. How many, I do not know, I am still doing my own research.

No where in my posts have I said to stop taking medications without a doctors supervision. With a doctors assistance one can be removed from these medications, however, if of course the patient is feeling better.

Simply put there are other methods of overcoming depression and other illnesses than just taking drugs. I am simply trying to open peoples eyes to alternative treatments that may be more successful than what they have been doing for years unsuccessfully!


#47

What you say about poor training in "many" cases might well be true, but on an issue of this gravity


#48

This is nonsense. I never met a single doctor who said anything as remotely as silly as this. Wise people, including doctors I have known, emphasize the emotional context of depression and go to great pains to talk about the stressors in the environment that may have triggered the bout.

I'm simply saying that you shouldn't place doctors and medication in a negative light in order to champion this or that therapy. This is misleading and not likely to help anybody.


#49

I have no idea what proportion of doctors are not well trained, Taiwan is not a place people come to get psychological assistance. Unfortuantely for many people, they live in Taiwan and need assistance here. There are a lack of resources here and organizations that deal with depression. What I would recommend is staying away from doctors who are solely trained in Taiwan.

Obviously one should check out the doctor before taking the medication he/she gives out, this is common sense.

Case in point - I was given a benzodiazepine by several doctors, at several different hospitals who are NOT psychologists. These doctors failed to tell me how to use the medication, what it was for, how to get off of it and the possible severe side effects of taking it. Which drugs they were are not important, what is important is the fact that these doctors were even allowed to prescribe the medication in the first place. I am not going to reveal who the doctors were or at which hospitals as I do not believe this was their fault. I have taken this issue up with the department of health which I hold 100% responsible. This is a whole other issue that needs to be dealt with in Taiwan.


#50

Now we're getting somewhere. We all know that Taiwan's medical system is imperfect, and many of us have heard stories about the hongbao surgeons, and of course there was the little girl who was forced to go to Taichung for treatment after being refused treatment all over Taipei.

But we need to be more concrete. If you have had bad experiences with doctors here, then I think you should name the hospitals/clinics involved for the benefit of other Forumosans, rather than spraying at anything that moves. Forewarned is forearmed. If you can provide a convincing case as to why Doctor X didn't do the right thing by you, then please make it. We don't need to know the doctor's name, but we could know what exactly it is that he/she did that in your opinion was unprofessional. That would allow people some sense of what to expect and what not to tolerate.

I would also be very interested to hear your experiences in dealing with the health department.


#51

Is this true with Taiwan psychologists though? Do they do that here in dealing with depression? The cognitive behavioral approach does more than emphasize on emotional context.

Now you are twisting my words. Doctors and medication are needed, but how much are they needed? Is it misleading to recommend an alternative treatment? I do not believe I have placed negative light on doctors and medication in order to champion an alternative treatment.

I've said pretty much all I want to say regarding this at this point. Especially being I am in the middle of dealing with the department of health. I am not going to mention which hospitals, because I firmly believe that any hospital you go to would do the exact same thing. I went to hospitals of all sizes and standards and encountered the same result. And I believe that if I went to all the other hospitals in Taipei I would find the same result. This is of course an assumption, but we all know how things work here. Is it professional and right in Taiwan for a doctor with no psychiatry background to prescribe psychological drugs? It is legal, but I have to wonder why.

How does this work in the US, the same? I was under the impression that in the US an MD must have a written note or something from a psychiatrist in order to make the prescription, maybe I am wrong.

Let's just say it's an exercise in futility. It's been over two months of waiting, pushing, waiting, asking, etc. and I am still waiting for their initial response.


#52

Yes, everyone reacts to differently to different treatments. The cognitive behavioral approach uses both medication and other treatments, with a focus on behavioral treatment. I don't disagree that medication may be needed. Medication may be needed long term for some depression sufferers, but it shouldn't be the only treatment. I also have read that long term and stable use of medication is the key, not jumping on and off of it. My reaction is mixed, yes, some to do society, some due to personal experiences and some due to the fact that their are other successful treatments out there. Unfortunately Taiwan is just starting to understand how big of an issue depression is for people in Taiwan. Ok I think it's time to sleep, I feel I am being redundant now.[/b]


#53

I agree that cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is one of the best forms of therapy out there today, mostly because it's both fast and effective. However, before it can be effective, most people need to get themselves a bit more balanced through medication. For some people, they can end the meds later, some people will need to be on them for their entire lives. Just listen to what the doctor says. Everyone is different and treatment needs to be tailored to suit the individual.


#54

Maybe you just need to get to a psychiatric hospital?


#55

That was rude and uncalled for. :fume: And when did I say I had any major problems? :loco: :fume:


#56

Hey JeffG, I am so suprised you see that as rude. I apologise for the unintended insult. If I wanted to be insulting I would have written a lot more words to do so.

To explain further. I sometimes take a Taiwanese friend without transport to a psychiatric hospital and they get great treatment. The doctors are professional and compassionate. Some are professors with overseas training that do the rounds on certain days.


#57

My apologies for over reacting. In the future, you may wish to address everyone instead of a particular person. In this thread, I am offering some suggestions to people. I do not suffer from depression.

Please list the name, address and phone number of the hospital(s) you are referring to, so those people who want to seek alternative doctors can find them.

Note: Benzodiazepines are not only prescribed for psychological problems.


#58

Yes, that was what caught my eye. More general next time. :blush:

I was thinking about my trip last Sunday to emergency. First time in 4 years that I had to go to hospital in Taiwan. The doc was a temp and when I went back Monday to see the ear specialist he said to throw away all the meds and started my treatment again.

I will give anybody information on this particular hospital by PM if they want. About 1 hour south of Taipei so will not suit most people and I am sure I have been the only foreigner there due to the stares and twittering nurses wandering if they have to treat the tall big nose foreigner.


#59

Hopefully your treatment will go well.

What you describe happens at all hospitals, no matter how big or how small. So long as the treatmet works for you and you like the doctors that's what matters.


#60

Anyone know of any therepists in Jiayi?