Meanwhile in Catalonia...


#321

Wait, what? :astonished:

Okay America, it was nice knowing y’all. :cry:


#322

Really? Do you support Catalan independence? @discobot fortune


#323

:crystal_ball: Very doubtful


#324

Well there ya go, Ibby.

As for people hating on the Jesus, while he does sound a bit harsh, I would bear in mind it can be annoying when people from another country tell you they know more about your country than you do, whatever your country (or region :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:) may be.

I wonder, are there any other Iberians here who would care to add their :2cents:?


#325

So both Trump and Discobot side with Spain? This is so one sided, we need some healthy opposition!


#326

What insult? It’s just unimportant what you or Brian think about this, again, that’s a fact. What Catalonia would need as an independent country is different.


#327

Attacking… like what?

Do you already know what fallacies you had on your previous post?


#328

USA for example has states bigger than Spain. With that area it would be easier to survive than for a smaller, overall poor region.

USA however has a shitty health care system, far from EU standards. And there’s a lot of poverty. Perhaps I made a poor choice of words when I said “survive”. Not only survive, but to be a healthy country, with a good wealth distribution.


#329

I’m not going to call you dumb. Instead, I’m going to ask you to quote me where I insult Catalans, one or two of those millions of times.

Either that or retract and apologize, or even better, read the Fucking news instead of giving your random opinion on the topic.

Thanks.


#330

TBH, you’re not that far from being right. I much agree with what you say, but there’s always a factor of uncertainty… Would Spain had been just a URSS satellite? Probably not. Left wing movements were (and are) far from being homogeneous in Spain (and probably elsewhere). As for Franco, he was crazy, probably. I agree that what we had in Spain wasn’t fascism, although this is a question that is way beyond my political and historical knowledges. It was more like what you said: conservativism, religion, nationalism, etc. The traits of francoism in our country are much criticised, but also debated… It’s a modern democracy, not badly ranked:

https://infographics.economist.com/2017/DemocracyIndex/


#331

Another example of indoctrination:

Kids were asked in a school to paint with different colors countries like Spain, Catalonia, France… :roll_eyes:


#332

Slightly different situation there.

The local government in NI keeps falling apart due to the local politicians. It is not due to the UK government pulling out the rug. The UK government has already agreed to allow NI to leave the UK if it is decided so in a referendum by a majority in NI. And the UK government has recognized that the aspiration to leave, and the aspiration to stay are equally legitimate if pursued peacefully and democratically. And that lesson was learned the hard way and again and again. As mister Jones pointed out earlier, the idea of an Irish state only started to become a reality because the British authorities went over the top in their response to what started as an unpopular - even farcical - declaration of independence. And the more recent troubles starting in the 1970’s also caught on partly due to a violent clampdown by the authorities on civil rights demonstrations.

It is dangerous territory for Spain, but a bit more trust in the Catalan public would probably go a long way.


#333

I’m not sanguine about the merits of organized charity. All too often it’s a means for keeping the have-nots down. Charity breeds dependency.

Give separatism a chance.

By the way, the only difference between charity and theft is which side is driving the transfer of wealth.


#334

I don`t disagree with what you are saying. In Canada, the West is pissed that it subsidizes the maritime provinces/Quebec and gets neglected in political representation given that high level of contribution and its increasing population.

That being said, part of federalism is such redistribution. I am not against it in Canada–I agree with it to a point (but not in breeding dependency) in a way an old-fashioned Tory believes in benevolence to a point.

In Spain, Catalonia has regional powers that are comparable to Canada`s decentralized provinces. Catalonia, an economic powerhouse, should not be so greedy/narrow minded. They have a lot to lose economically by splitting with many multinationals wanting EU access and ready to change offices to Madrid or elsewhere.

In both instances of separatism (Quebec and Catalonia), one could argue it would be more economically devastating to leave than stay in their federal entity. Quebec`s case is especially true. They get such sweeteners from Canada, it is only aging Francophone hippies thinking with their hearts (i.e. pretty much all Quebecers supporting independence) and not their pocketbooks that support such idiotic splittism.


#335

Are we talking short term or long term?

Short term, radical change is always disruptive by its nature. Long term, freedom is wonderful for those who can handle it.

If Catalonia is an economic powerhouse, how about this: keep Spain together but move the capital to Barcelona. Rewrite the constitution to cement a high level of local autonomy. And if the Spaniards object to all that, they’ll have a lot of explaining to do. Starting with: what’s so great about Madrid anyway?

Seem reasonable?


#336

Congratulations to the Republic of Catalonia!

And f*** Spain!


#337

Viva Espana …and Catalonia :smile:


#338

BBC: Catalan parliament declares independence from Spain

:fire: :es: :fire:


#339

Republic recognized by… nobody. It’s basically the byproduct of a paranoia that is going to get some people in jail.

Oh, BTW, fuck you :wink:


#340