Meanwhile in Catalonia...


#361


#362

Deleted.


#363

When something happens repeatedly, it makes sense to wonder why.

A question for The Jesus: if Spain just goes away, what will it matter? Is there something special about Spain as a nation-state that it’s worth keeping around for its own sake? Is it a force for good in the world? is it a force for much of anything in particular in this world?


#364

There are more interesting things to talk about, but I will reply: we want to keep being a modern country with a lot of historical heritage, and with one of the best healthcare system (much, much better than what you iksbjdfkjb in the USA have). For maintaining these things, we can not break the country into small pieces and give up territories where the country has been making the biggest investments for decades.


#365

A question for ___________: if ___________ just goes away, what will it matter? Is there something special about ___________ as a ___________ that he/she/it is worth keeping around for his/her/its own sake? Is he/she/it a force for good in the world? Is he/she/it a force for much of anything in particular in this world?

A very useful piece of text – thank you sir! We should add it to Discobot’s repertoire.


#366

Good to see you’re on the case. Discobot’s repertoire is getting really stale.


#367

:astonished:

Insult the God-Emperor, pay the price!! :rant:

If Spain just goes away, what will it matter?
@discobot quote


#368

:left_speech_bubble: If you can’t feed a hundred people, then feed just one. — Mother Teresa


#369

And if Catalonia goes away?
@discobot quote


#370

:left_speech_bubble: Happiness cannot be travelled to, owned, earned, worn or consumed. Happiness is the spiritual experience of living every minute with love, grace and gratitude. — Denis Waitley


#371

There you have it, folks: independence is a state of mind. :yin_yang:


#372


#373

Why give the poor what you can eat yourself?

…probably not what she meant, but she wasn’t one to think her platitudes all the way through.


#374

Hi! To find out what I can do, say @discobot display help.


#375

An economic powerhouse goes away.

If you care about that sort of thing. That is to say, if you understand economics. And freedom.

Spain is expendable in a way that Catalonia is not.


#376

“Rich historical heritage.” Uh, the less said about that, the better. Although they did drive the Moors out, so that’s something. And the Aztec and Inca empires were kind of evil, although no worse than what replaced them.

I’ll say this: they were major winners for a while. But that was a long, long time ago.

Pro tip: whenever someone talks about a rich historical heritage, he’s talking about a place that’s been for shit throughout living memory. No country that’s got something to brag about right freaking now has to lean on ancient history to try to justify its existence. Speaking of which…

“Better healthcare system.” That’s what they all say. Hell, they even say that about Cuba. It’s all a socialist paradise until you delve into the details. Now if you’ve got money, it’s pretty all right. But if you’ve got money, the US is better.

By the way, if Spain can’t maintain whatever is great about Spain without Catalonia, that just raises further questions. Could it be that Catalonia IS all that’s great about Spain?

Move the capital of Spain to Barcelona, and then we can talk unity.


#377

After not having read a word of your text, I must say that I don’t care.


#378

“Better healthcare system.” That’s what they all say. Hell, they even say that about Cuba. It’s all a socialist paradise until you delve into the details. Now if you’ve got money, it’s pretty all right. But if you’ve got money, the US is better.

Daily Rowlandism for today: Cuba proves Spanish healthcare couldn’t possibly be good. :rainbow:


#379

Actually the current situation is pretty crazy.

Puigdemont KINDA declared the independence. As usual, things were far from being clear, the were not exactly what they looked. In an attempt presumably of avoiding legal consequences, he didn’t declared the independence but he made it sound like, to the point that pretty much everybody understood that the republic of Narnia Catalonia was born, finally. Cellebrations, concerts, people on the street… everything was fun and laughs… for the independentists. The other half of Catalonia was at home, depressed.

This was as a result of the “negotiations” between the central and the local government. The local government of Catalonia was demanding elections, but for deciding what to do (independence VS normality). In addition to that, they were asking for immunity and to release the two leaders of the secessionist movements (Jordi & Jordi), and NO 155. The government said no way and offered normal (regional) elections and NO 155. The local government rejected the offer and decided to go ahead with their independence declaration… in that weird way. A curiosity: the Spanish flag is still in the same place in the local “Govern” headquarter.

Spain applies 155 in a soft way (they decide not to intervene certain things like education and local media), and calls for LOCAL elections for 21st of December.

With those parameters, there were 2 theories:

  1. there was a private negotiation between Puigdemont and Rajoy: neither of them wanted 155 to be applied, for it would affect the image of both of them. however Rajoy had to do something, and Puigdemont couldn’t “mishear” the independentist claims. As a result, they fake an independence declaration, and they apply a fake 155

  2. super smart movement of the government: it’s been demonstrated that the secessionists can’t do shit in reality, and by calling for REGIONAL elections the CUP and probably ERC won’t participate, for it would be as very incoherent. Supposedly, to participate in the elections would mean that the Republic of Narnia doesn’t exist and that they still obey Spain’s dictations.

Personally I didn’t believe either theory. Indeed, although everybody expected ERC and CUP parliamentarians to give up their seats in the Spain parliament in Madrid… behold the independentists! they didn’t!!! the reason? well, some of them argued that they still need to use the institutions for fighting for Catalonia, and some others… and read this carefully… some others said that there are still regions of the Paisos Catalans (Catalan Countries) that are still in Spain, and they need to liberate them!. These regions would be Valencia among others. Valencia was back in the day the capital of Spain xD

EVERYBODY in Spain is laughing at the independentism. Even independentists claim that this has been a fucking disaster (you can trust me, I’m not making up anything). However, after decades of manipulation and indoctrination, the supporters of the independence don’t attend to reasons, don’t give a shit about reality (the impossibility of having a nation state, and that their leaders are cheating on them).

The police is doing some investigations, and as a result we have learnt that:

  1. the Economy division of JuntsPelS’i, from ERC and under the control of Junqueras, knew that the Republic of Narnia wasn’t economically possible at this point. They lied to Puigdemont’s team so that he would declare the republic
  2. They knew that it was impossible to declare the independence: http://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-grabacion-alto-cargo-junqueras-cualquiera-dos-dedos-cerebro-sabe-no-puede-proclamar-independencia-20171031185915.html

Now Puigdemont is in Belgium, lying openly about the situation. The strategy is to associate Catalonia with European values of modernity, democracy, tolerance, progressism, pacifism, etc… and associate Spain with fascism, repression, violence and backwards values. They stress on how pacific and open to dialogue they are and show the World how they ask Spain to negotiate with them. They are distracting the international observers from the fact that they broke Spain’s, Catalonia’s, and their own Parliament’s laws, and that the only thing they want to negotiate is the conditions AFTER they declare their own republic (they would need it because otherwise they would be in serious economical troubles, and outside the EU!!!).

As I said, the independentists are far from giving up. Many are disappointed and many claim that have been cheated, but most of these people won’t give up because they see this as a war against oppression. they have been taught that they are different, special, better, and that Spain won’t let them be themselves. They want independence because they are oppressed, and they are oppressed because they are not independent.

Most of the independentist are blind to reality because they fall in any of these categories:

  1. plain stupid: they are lied and manipulated by their leaders, and they won’t question them. Even if the explanations are ridiculous
  2. fanatics: they have strong believes, more elaborated than the stupid, and when reality proves them wrong, they come up with complex theories that come to say that they are still right but everybody hates them and it’s Spain’s fault
  3. cynics: they don’t care about what’s real what’s not. They mix half truths with lies, and that’s not a moral problem for them because they are at war and they have to defeat their enemy

In the meanwhile, the independentists didn’t get as much international support as they told their people, wired calls made public revealed that they knew that the independence was impossible economically, contrarily to what they told their people, the leader has fled escaping from Justice while he was asking public workers to do strikes and disobey the law… but they have to stay in Spain… will all these things have an important impact on the pro independence base of voters? not as much as many think. I really think that this needs time, and special measures to heal up…


#380

Oh, Puigdemont will be prosecuted for rebellion and sedition. Apparently rebellion doesn’t really apply in this case for there was no violence involved (this charge was thought more for military stuff and so).