Yeah, it would be funny, but some strange reason I’m not laughing now…
The images of bleeding children I was saying:
So they want to use the police brutality used by the central government last Sunday to legitimize their independence movement… by using images of their own police brutality xD Do you see the irony? xD
Now, again, every end of football league leaves images worse than the ones seen this last weekend. But again, Catalan independentists are professional whiners, they claim to be special, so the situation is special too! it never happened before!
Also… when a state represses movement X with violence… that means that movement X has to be automatically granted what they claim???
And… please, those who side by the secessionist because SOME of the SECESSIONIST receive some rubber, can you tell me what your country does in illegal demonstrations? and do you automatically side by them, supporting whatever crazy claims they have? I know the answer, and everybody knows it.
Another manipulation by the secessionists: they were using a photo of a riot policeman that looked like attacking a poor father and his child. Reality is… the idiotic father wanted to get into the disturbs with the kid, putting him at risk. The policeman was trying to convince him to move to a safer place:
Seriously Icon, you are badly influenced by your friends in Catalonia. Their version of the conflict they’ve been giving you for years is not just biased, it’s bullshit.
The local police corp, the Mossos, was created recently, as a movement of the local government to have more power/independence from the central government. This police is known by everybody in Spain (including Catalans) for being brutal, with LOTS of cases of torture and bad practices when dealing with demonstrations. Please google “ciudad morta”. It is a documentary made in Catalonia, about some events that took place there. Not Spain propaganda. Look up “Esther Quintana”, and you will know why The Mossos stopped using rubber ball guns.
I’m sure that you are NOT aware of how things happened these last days. Firstly the Mossos are not big enough for dealing with this event. They are just not enough men. Secondly, their chief has been replaced recently by another one, closer to the pro independence movement, so that he wouldn’t obey commands from the authorities, just the local government (and this is not what the law says). And then, the Mossos said “ok, ok, we will close down the schools” but they didn’t and ASKED FOR HELP to the National Police last minute, when people were already entering the schools. They were looking for the pictures Icon, please, use common sense.
For calling this poll the local government broke EVEN THEIR OWN custom made LAW. What are you talking about? Even pro independence politicians complained about this:
PRO INDEPENCE POLITICIANS COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WAS DOING!!! HE MUST BE A FASCIST FROM SPAIN!!! LOL
Also, you talk about winning a poll: NOWHERE in the World you can declare an independence with just a gross of supporters under 40%. Not even 40% of the electors, which BTW, were fewer than last poll (strange).
Another thing that your Catalan nutters didn’t tell you: after the 9N poll, even pro independence politicians recognized that with those numbers THEY HAD NOT enough support for calling for independence.
I read mostly Spanish newspapers, difficult to read catalan. the Spanish government rivals ours in terms of corruption. I also have friends in Madrid and their opinion is that their government sucks to the n power, is a bunch of corrupt inepts, and are not above using force to cling to power endlessly.
That to me explains teh desmesurate by any measure ersponse to the referendum. There were many ways to do it. The Spanish government was both inept and oppressive.
Yes, there are many fake pictures, origin in question BTW. But there are also videos and reports by foreign independent media, which tell of clashes and excessive use of force by teh authorities.
You tell me that such violence is justified because they broke the law. I think it is not conmesurate to the “sin”. It would be along the lines of cutting teh hand of anyone hungry enough to steal a loaf of bread…while someone robbing a bank is being lauded as a model citizen - this latter the example of the corrupt politicians.
Whjat I am saying is that the vote for Cataluna’s independence is fueled more by the reaction towards the despicable behavior of Sapnsih politicians, and that their complaints have not been addressed. As it goes, the country will keep plunging into economic depression and will not advance democratically, not because of the Catalunas, but because no one addressed their or the people’s concerns.
I think just the fact you used quotes around repressed shows why some Catalonians feels so strongly about leaving the country. At least twice in history the Catalonian language and customs were officially not allowed in public. Sure, once was by Franco which most Spanish don’t remember fondly, but the general sentiment seems to continue.
I think if you really want to draw some parallels between the Catalonia situation and Taiwan, then the Aboriginal regions of Taiwan would be much more similar. Aboriginal language and customs were once repressed, and still not highly regarded by most of the non-Aboriginal population. If there is a Aboriginal territory happens to also be the richest part of Taiwan, like Catalonia is to Spain, you bet your hats that the aboriginals would vote to leave the rest of Taiwan if they don’t get the respect and recognition they deserve.
You read the press, but you are told lots of bullshit by your Catalan friends, as I told you in past discussions. Spainish politicians rival Taiwanese in terms of corruption… including politicians in Catalonia. But I don’t know how this legitimize the pro independence movement:
Indeed, Catalonia is one of the Spain regions with highest level of corruption. Not sure what your argument is, really.
As for the brute force, again, riot police is used everywhere in the World, especially when the country and its territorial integrity is threatened. What Are You Talking About, really.
I agree that this only reinforces the fantasy argument that pro independence movements use against Spain: “we are oppressed, we just wanted to vote, we are democrats”. A fallacy, BTW.
Define excessive. I’ve seen many images like this for decades, from Europe. Demonstrators are reduced like this everywhere in the World. As for the images source… LOL. there’s a woman who even claimed to have had her fingers broken “one by one” by the police, and then they touched her tits while laughing. Debunked already thanks to videos.
Demagogy. As for the corruption, please refer to what I already said…
Sure, but no, this doesn’t justifies the independentists.
BTW, MANY people from Catalonia would be offended by your words: Half Catalonia doesn’t want this bullshit. If you want I can send you a link to a politics forum where I participate where you can read supporters and detractors of this show… both sides from Catalonia.
No, have somebody translate it for you. Firstly, it is possible to make amends and modify to the Constitution. It wouldn’t be the first time. Secondly, read the text below this: 2) Vías que no exigen reforma constitucional
I have. The author argued against all points himself did he not? He adds the following statement:
Para solventar este obstáculo, resta una única posibilidad. Las comunidades autónomas poseen la facultad de presentar a las Cortes Generales propuestas de reforma constitucional.
Which google translates to:
To solve this obstacle, there remains only one possibility. The Autonomous Communities have the power to present to the Cortes Generals proposals for constitutional reform.
Ok, true IF the current government (or anybody else actually) appeals to the Constitution Tribunal. And that actually would happen for sure, sorry, my mistake.
My point is: no, this is not exceptional. And no, this doesn’t justify independence. And no, the local police in Catalonia is not better: indeed, they are infamous for being brutal.
Please read my arguments, and please read the links I sent you.
Javier Nart, socialist, speaking about children indoctrination in Catalonia (that TV channel is very right wing, but they still have some interesting debates with people as diverse as Pablo Iglesias or Alejandro Cao de Benos):
After this interview, the interviewer, a Catalan himself, was insulted and bullied by the pro independence media and those “democratic and pacific” Catalan secessionists. The problem: Carles Puigdemont was seen as a fool by everybody who wasn’t blind, deaf and retarded.
I’m guessing you are Spanish, but not Catalonian or Basque? As a matter of fact, I do live in a country with quite a few “independentists,” whose independence I hope they are willing to defend, if necessary, with violence.