Nazi paraphernalia on sale at Banqiao station?


#21

There’s a store in 萬年 Plaza in Ximen that also stocks a fair bit of Nazi stuff, including a massive flag near the door (well there was, the last time I was in that building a couple of months ago). Other military stuff too. The only stuff that really stands out to me as being a bit off is the Nazi stuff, but that’s very possibly because I’m from Europe, and ignorant about the significance of most of the other stuff that’s sold there.

To me it’s distasteful and crass, but the guy flogging this stuff isn’t trying to promote the extermination of world Jewry, so I don’t see the point in getting worked up about it. He’s ignorant when it comes to European history, big deal.


#22

This is exactly the right answer. As a Jew, I care about it particularly, but I am similarly against celebrating anything that represents genocide without knowing what it means.

IF it emerged that the people selling the Nazi stuff knew exactly what it stood for, I’d leave the issue alone. They are perfectly entitled to their hate. But when the issue is ignorance, it’s unacceptable that people aren’t even interested in knowing what it means before dressing up in Nazi regalia and waving around swastikas.


#23

I did a little more Googling and clicking.

Again, out of an abundance of caution, I describe all the links referred to in this post as [color=#FF0000]NOT SUITABLE FOR WORK[/color].

If you go to lihpaomall.com.tw/ , then under the Halloween decorations on the page, you should see a line of Chinese phrases.

If you click the second Chinese phrase in that line, “樓層導覽” (“Floor Tour/Floor Guide”), you should then see three large categories in the form of wide horizontal strips (ignoring the narrow horizontal strip above the three wide ones).

If you look at the top wide horizontal strip, the one that says “1F,” and go to the bottom row in that strip, and click the next-to-last Chinese phrase, “骷髏軍團” (“Skull Legion”), then you should get three columns of rectangles.

If you click the bottom rectangle in the middle column, the one that says “骷髏軍團 SS-3” (“Skull Legion SS-3”), you should then get a video.

Edited to add:

I didn’t even notice that the video was on YouTube. You can skip the above procedure and just watch the video (to which the above [color=#FF0000]NOT SUITABLE FOR WORK[/color] warning still applies): youtube.com/watch?v=dmxlUM_XNoc


#24

This is exactly the right answer. As a Jew, I care about it particularly, but I am similarly against celebrating anything that represents genocide without knowing what it means.

IF it emerged that the people selling the Nazi stuff knew exactly what it stood for, I’d leave the issue alone. They are perfectly entitled to their hate. But when the issue is ignorance, it’s unacceptable that people aren’t even interested in knowing what it means before dressing up in Nazi regalia and waving around swastikas.[/quote]

A few random points. . .

The Swastika is not a symbol of ‘ultimate evil’. It’s the flag of an evil regime that didn’t survive, a regime little different from a hundred other evil regimes that preceded it through thousands of years of history.

My pointing out examples of other flags was not ‘feeble’. The Confederate flag is under pressure in the US right now. Is that another symbol of ‘ultimate evil’?

Hongkongwei is a Jew. Big deal. My ancestry is gypsy, and my ancestors pitched in to stop Hitler - with the result that many of them died. So I never knew my grandfather, just had his medals. Same for some of my uncles.

So when people behave poorly because of ignorance we should intervene? I guess that makes some sense. So cool. Educate them.

Personally I’m interested in educating Jews and Muslims about the evil of mutilating their children’s genitals in the name of religion, and in educating society to actively protect these defenseless children. Doing nothing due to a fear of being called anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, etc. is just not acceptable. I find the continuation of this primitive blood sacrifice in the modern age baffling and revolting. A religion that feels entitled to shed the blood of children is a truly horrible thing. This seems to me more useful than worrying about the sale of swastikas in a Taiwanese train station.


#25

I don’t think there’s any ignorance at play here. Everybody knows the history of it in broad terms at least. It’s all about a buck, and not giving a fuck. I’ve been to the store in Wannian (if we’re talking about the same one) I’ll bet you that guy knows the history down to the last tank. People in the States sell Che and Mao stuff too, at times, FWIW.


#26

I disagree on both the Swastika and the Confederate flag. They both represent oppressive regimes that for better or for worse are known for their worst atrocities against humanity… just like the flag of the Khmer Rouge, or imperial Japan. Should they be banned? No, I believe that falls under freedom of speech. But waving these around ignorant of what they stand for is ignoring the painful lessons of the past, thereby opening the door past horrors to come back again. I would say the same thing if Taiwanese people were burning crosses because it looked cool or hanging nooses from trees just for the heck of it.


#27

Disagree with you on the Confederate flag representing an oppressive regime. Jefferson Davis appointed Judah Benjamin as his secretary of state, attorney general, and secretary of war at various times. Contrast this tolerance towards Judaism versus U.S. Grant’s blatant anti-Semitism: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js … grant.html

Likewise, wage slavery and the treatment of the Irish by the Union were quite oppressive.

If anything, Rhode Island’s state flag should be synonymous with slavery more than the Confederate flag :2cents:

[quote]
The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages.[/quote]
tracingcenter.org/resources/ … ave-trade/

I find it ironic that leftists and their politically correct adherents today have such hatred towards the South. Prior to the Civil War, left wing Democrats in the urban areas of the North (i.e. locofocos faction) actually formed political alliances with Southern planters. books.google.ca/books?id=TPXdYy … os&f=false


#28

You’re not getting my meaning. Of course you can argue that the Confederate flag represents more than slavery. You can also argue the Nazi flag represents modernization, standing up to international bullying, and a bold vision to make the citizens of a country live better lives. Historically speaking, neither of those are wrong… but that’s simply not how people interpret these symbols today.

The issue with the Confederate flag isn’t that it belonged to a state that kept slaves – it’s that it has come to symbolize slavery more than anything else. Swastikas and the hammer and sickle are the same way.


#29

Some people don’t quite get iconography, Hok. :wink:


#30

For as long as Judaism refuses to reform the Star of David surely symbolizes ritualized child sex abuse?

Certainly seems worth educating anyone insensitive enough to display it.


#31

Disagree with you on the Confederate flag representing an oppressive regime. Jefferson Davis appointed Judah Benjamin as his secretary of state, attorney general, and secretary of war at various times. Contrast this tolerance towards Judaism versus U.S. Grant’s blatant anti-Semitism: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js … grant.html

Likewise, wage slavery and the treatment of the Irish by the Union were quite oppressive.

If anything, Rhode Island’s state flag should be synonymous with slavery more than the Confederate flag :2cents:

[quote]
The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages.[/quote]
tracingcenter.org/resources/ … ave-trade/

I find it ironic that leftists and their politically correct adherents today have such hatred towards the South. Prior to the Civil War, left wing Democrats in the urban areas of the North (i.e. locofocos faction) actually formed political alliances with Southern planters. books.google.ca/books?id=TPXdYy … os&f=false[/quote]

Agree with all your points.

I’ve found the recent hatred in the US for anything related to the Confederacy pretty disturbing.

History is never simple, and Southerners should not be bullied into feeling ashamed of their heritage.


#32

Then so does the flag of the Philippines, right? The thing is, nobody looks at a Philippine passport and thinks “circumcision.” Nearly everybody who’s read a few books looks at a swastika and thinks “aggression” and “holocaust.”


#33

Then so does the flag of the Philippines, right? The thing is, nobody looks at a Philippine passport and thinks “circumcision.” Nearly everybody who’s read a few books looks at a swastika and thinks “aggression” and “holocaust.”[/quote]

I’m not sure about your line of reasoning. . .

(1)

Throughout English (and European) history Jews were widely and rightly reviled for their custom of child blood sacrifice. It was seen as a unique and defining character of Judaism, and did the religion no favors in terms of PR. There were even occasional (and presumably hysterical and unfounded) accounts of Jews kidnapping children to mutilate. While there may have been an element of anti-Jewish prejudice to all this, it was not simply about prejudice. The public responded with similar revulsion when Islamic rulers forced genital mutilation on English prisoners.

Judaism and genital mutilation have been associated in the European public consciousness for centuries. That’s natural enough given that from the Reconquista until the Post-WWII period of more diverse immigration, Jews were virtually the only people in the Western World practicing genital mutilation.

My own experience has certainly been that when you criticize (male) genital mutilation, you promptly get labeled Anti-Semitic. You even get threatened with all kinds of things - e.g. I had a professor of legal history threaten to throw me out of his class for ‘anti-Semitism’ merely for suggesting a parallel between cultural practices involving the sexual mutilation of male and female children.

Actually I suppose the truth is that I am anti-Semitic in so far as I think Jewish practitioners of child mutilation should be jailed - obviously only after being given fair warning to stop. Plenty of existing laws could be used to stamp it out if western society would only get over its fear of offending minorities. Judaism should not be treated with kid gloves based on things done to it by a regime destroyed 70 years ago.

(2)

I’d guess that average person looks at a swastika and remembers the Jewish victims of the Holocaust, but forgets the Slavs, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally disabled, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, Freemasons, etc.

My point is that for most people the symbolism attached to the Swastika involves considerable simplification/distortion of reality.


#34

Come on people use a bit of brain power on this one. How many millions have the Brits and US slaughtered yet these flags are loved and adored.

That said I do agree that using the Swastika in Taiwan the way
It is commercialized is unnecessary and simply intellectual laziness on the part of the store owners


#35

Next time you see a lumpia you should think of genital mutilation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuli_(rite

I don’t think you got my point. I’m sure there were Confederate soldiers who fought for reasons other than slavery. But that doesn’t matter. To most, the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism and treating human beings like property. To most, Nazi insignias are symbols of genocide and hatred. We could argue that Islamic State is more than an organization that encourages kidnapping and raping little girls and lobbing people’s heads of, but when most people see that flag, what do they think of? Icons are given meaning through consensus, not diktat, and the general consensus is it’s not cool to flash around Nazi bling unless you’re doing so in the “right” group of people.


#36

I actually don’t understand.

How many flags should we ban?

Swastika? Confederate? Turkey? Khmer Rouge? Soviet? PRC? ROC? The Black Tug Banner of the Mongols? The Islamic Black Standard? The St George’s Cross? The Union Jack?

Where does it start and end?[/quote]

Really. Just get out there and read and see what other people think and why it upsets them. You may still decide they’re all just histrionic dicks, or you may decide that it’s better to be kind about this stuff, especially if you grew up where your stomach doesn’t clench at the sight of a symbol. These things are toothless for you. Be grateful, not dismissive of those who really do fear these symbols. Maybe ask how they feel instead of telling them how they should feel.


#37

[quote=“Ermintrude”]
Really. Just get out there and read and see what other people think and why it upsets them. You may still decide they’re all just histrionic dicks, or you may decide that it’s better to be kind about this stuff, especially if you grew up where your stomach doesn’t clench at the sight of a symbol. These things are toothless for you. Be grateful, not dismissive of those who really do fear these symbols. Maybe ask how they feel instead of telling them how they should feel.[/quote]
Where’s that damn kudo button?


#38

At least on my computer, and for some reason that I don’t know, a Wikipedia-article link that contains an end parenthesis at the end of the link, doesn’t work, or at least they’ve never worked for me (and yours doesn’t work for me). This problem can be cured by just adding the end parenthesis once the “dead” page is reached, but some people might not know that.

I find that embedding the link in text–e. g., “Hokwongwei’s link to Wikipedia’s article on Tuli”–cures that problem.

If you don’t want to hide the URL–that is, if you want to make sure the reader knows that you’re providing a URL–you can even embed the link in the link, e. g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuli_(rite).


#39

This discussion’s gotten way over my head but I seem to be detecting an undercurrent of “the Jews had it coming to them because they practice circumcision”. But the one thing does not excuse the other. You can’t see the final solution as a punishment for “ritual child sex abuse”.


#40

Yeah, but it’s not the Filipinos crying ‘oppression’, ‘sinister antisemitism’, ‘just like the holocaust!’ when concerned and empathetic citizens suggest they bring their revolting tradition of blood sacrifice and child sex mutilation into the 21st century. This behavior would be coming from Jews, and it’s pathetic. So I’ll associate Jewish (and Islamic) symbols with child genital mutilation until such time as Jews (and Muslims) stop emotionally manipulating the rest of society into letting them piss on the rights of children in the name of superstition.

Also, spring rolls seem to exist all over Asia. If they have developed some association with genital mutilation of children in the Philippines that’s news to me and I assume it’s a local thing. I’ve always assumed Filipino child sex mutilation customs were part of the Austronesian tradition - where it seems more an initiation into adulthood. Equally disgusting, and still child abuse - given it’s forced on young people not yet living independently.

And perhaps you didn’t get my point. To most Nazi insignia are primarily symbols of anti-Jewish genocide, because that’s been the main narrative ever since the shooting stopped. The other victims have been largely forgotten.

When you talk about ‘general consensus’ (against flashing Nazi bling) you’re ignoring the obvious fact that no such ‘general consensus’ exists in Taiwan, and why would it? It’s really not their history.