I’m looking for a word in Chinese for either “Europe” or “Spain” that would not now be in common use. Maybe something classical or similar? Do any of our historical scholars know of such a thing?
佛郎機. The Chinese got that one from the Arabs, who called all Europeans Franks. The term was at least in use till early Qing dynasty. The term was most often used to refer to the Portuguese. Ming referred to the canons bought from the Portuguese (which overlapped the Iberian Union) as 佛郎機砲 (Frank canons, also written as 佛朗機砲).
There are probably more. I’ll post if I recall them.
Edit:
When the Dutch showed up, Ming officials used 佛朗機 exclusively to refer to the Portuguese (Iberian Union), and coined the term 紅毛 for the Dutch.
It’s probably at that point 西洋 and 洋人 began as a general way to refer to Europe and Europeans.
According to Mingshi (明史), the 佛朗機 called themselves 干係蠟國 (some say it’s a transliteration for Castile), and the 紅毛 called themselves 和蘭國 (Holland).
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If we go even further back, during Han dynasty, they referred to the Romans as 大秦, or 犁鞬 (also 黎軒, 犁靬, 犁鞬, 氂靬, 驪靬, likely pronounced le-kan). Some say 犁鞬 is a transliteration of Alexandria. We can’t be sure which Alexandria it refers to, but it should be the one in Egypt or one of those Alexandrias in Anatolia.
The Han dynasty sent Gan Ying (甘英) to visit Rome, but he turned back by the Persian Gulf.
Roman emperor Antoninus Pius and his successor Marcus Aurelius sent ambassadors to the Han empire. They went by the sea route, getting to Vietnam first before making their way to the Han court. These envoys actually made it. The Chinese recorded them as from 大秦.
By the Tang dynasty, official records called Rome 拂菻 (also 普嵐, 伏盧尼, 拂懍, 拂臨 put-lum). It’s a term borrowed from the Turks (Purum), who got the term from the Persians (Prom).
The usage of 拂菻 continued to the Yuan dynasty, but by then it was to translate the Persian term Farang.
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You’re a treasure!! Thanks so much for that. Not for anything really important but you know how it is when you just want to know something. And my Classical Chinese doesn’t extend much farther than the Peach Garden. 
On the transliteration for Castile, besides 干係臘國, it is also written as 乾絲臘, 干系臘, 乾絲蚋 throughout Ming records. Mingshi also had 蒲都麗家 on record, saying by 嘉靖四十四年 (1565), 佛朗機 pretended to represent Malacca at the state visit, and this time claimed to have changed its name to 蒲都麗家.
蒲都麗家 is a transliteration for Portugal, and the Iberia Union didn’t begin until 1580. So in 1565 someone from Portugal probably would have made sure they weren’t called 佛朗機.
Hi, thanks for the information about “(East)Roma”. I am curious, from where did you find ! 拂懍 ? Because I looked for whole Chinese dictionaries, but I could not find fu 拂 and lin 懍 together. I have checked also Japanese Morohashi dictionary. There is only standard form 拂菻. Most interesting is in Old Turkic (Tujueyu) from 8th century for East Roma used the word PURYM (Sogdian from) and in another Old Turkic (Old Uighur / Huihu) text used for East Roma vrom/from (as an equivalent for 拂懍).
Best wishes from Turkey
Mehmet
The 拂懍 transliteration can be found in several Buddhist records, all during the Tang dynasty.
It can be found in the “Buddhist Terminology Dictionary” (一切經音義) by Monk Huilin (慧琳 A.D. 788 ~ 810).
拂懍國中林禁反假借也
In the famous “Great Tang Records on the Western Regions” (大唐西域記) by equally as famous great translator Xuanzhang (玄奘) and his disciple Bianji (辯機 A.D. 596 ~ 646)
里居人眾 家產富 西北接拂懍國境壤 風俗同波剌斯
Also from the same source:
男子多諸珍貨附拂懍國 故拂懍王歲遣丈夫配焉
Also from the Western Regions:
有乖異 多珍寶 亦富饒也 拂懍國西南海島有西女國
拂懍 is again mentioned in the “Biography of Master Xuangzhang of the Great Tang Ci-en Temple” (大唐大慈恩寺三藏法師傳) by Monk Huili (慧立 A.D. 638 ~ 688)
東境有鵠秣城 西北接拂懍國 西南海島有西女國
In the Buddhist text “Forest of Gems in the Garden of the Dharma” (法苑珠林) by Monk Daoshi (道世 A.D. 618 ~ 668)
佛鉢在王宮中西北接拂懍國 出白狗子 本赤頭鴨生
In the Buddhist text “The Annals of the Shakya Clan” (釋迦方志) by Monk Daoxuan (道宣 A.D. 600 ~ 650)
人眾盛 西北接拂懍國 非印度 出伯狗子
Interestingly, in many of these same texts, a different transliteration 忽懍國 co-exists with 拂懍國.
忽 and 拂 would has sounded virtually the same in Middle Chinese.
In “Great Tang Records on the Western Regions” (大唐西域記)
城周十四五里 西北至忽懍國 忽懍國周八百餘里國
also from GTRWR
西北至忽懍國 忽懍國周八百餘里
still from GTRWR, this is the index portion
縛伽浪國 紇露悉泯健國 忽懍國 縛喝國 銳秣陀國
In the “Buddhist Terminology Dictionary” (一切經音義)
忽懍國中林禁反
In “The Annals of the Shakya Clan” (釋迦方志)
城周十五里許 又西北至忽懍國 周八百餘里
also from Shakya Clan
又縛喝國東至忽懍國 於此東南至紇露悉泯健國
Hi hansioux
Thanks a lot for detailed and long answer.
I met with 拂懍 at Datang Daciensi and also Xiyuji.
I work on Old Uighur (回鶻) translation of Datang Daciensi. Old Uighur is almost same language with 突厥語. In Old Turkic (Tujueyu) there is not a letter for F, thats way they showed Rom as Purum (similar Sogdian frwm).
Whole books in European languages on Xiyuji (since 19th century, same as S. Beal and others) translated it as Rom !(upload://nbMVXJeYnHQF6kdECMFPDgX5Vck.jpg)πὁλιν
I hope I could upload JPGs succesfully, You can see Morohashi’s explanation on well known
fu-lin. I could reached most sources about 拂懍 fu lin through CBETA and Daizokyo 大正新脩大藏經. For me, interesting is, how could decide former european translaters of Xiyuji about fulin and Rom. Thanks again.
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Neither did Middle Chinese. If Tang Chinese borrowed this word from the Sogdians or others who had an /f/ as the initial for their name for Rome, then Tang translators would have more likely picked a character with an /h/ initial to transliterate the word.
The fact that they picked 拂, which had a /pʰ/ as its initial, likely shows that Tang Chinese borrowed the word from a language that used a /p/ or /pʰ/ as the initial for Rome.
Two ways probably. One, they know 大秦 refers to Byzantium and therefore because Chinese records spells out Pulim used to be called 大秦, therefore they know it refers to Rome.
Two, they might have had insights into Central Asian history and knew the Sogdians refered to the Byzantine as /frwm/.
Thanks again.