Otto Warmbier

thats another one i don’t buy so much as you can find the same sort of bathroom tile buildings style all over asia. and if taiwan was treated so bad as a temporary base why does it look better than china, the place they were planning on getting back to?

Those window cages are practical. They help keep old ladies from wandering out the windows.

I’ve always assumed the ugliness was from the mentality that comes from having grown up poor.

Japanese culture is big on cleanliness. Chinese culture, not so much. They just focus on quick-and-dirty solutions to obvious and pressing problems. Not the best mentality, but not the worst either.

Taiwan is a tradesman’s purgatory. And I can’t imagine what some privileged idiot kid would make of it all. The only part of it he could possibly relate to is the lack of long term thinking.

Now the subways are pure first world, 21st century. Like an entirely different country down there. George Jetson land. If they were maglev, they’d be perfect.

Taiwan looks far better now than it used to. China looks far worse now than it used to.

what way are you referring to though ? china and taiwan have both modernised and improved, i just feel even with how rough taiwan looks it is still way more appealing than the drab mainland.

if you mean china looked better in pre communist times then i agree, but taiwan also did in the japanese era.

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China is aggressively tearing down historic sites and replacing them with ugly highrises. They have no regard for historic preservation.

the highrises they built before and the communist style buildings were ugly too mate.

Today’s front page had that question: why can people line up in order for the MRT but not for the bus?

That’s stupid, there’s about 80% compliance with queueing for both MRT and the bus.
Mostly it’s them fuckhead old bastards, the ones who walk straight out into traffic without looking, who choose to ignore the queue.

At least with the buses, most of the time the driver will yell at them to get in line.

I would like to know. Would you go again? Is it bad to go as tourist cause you support the regime or is it good because it creates opportunities to understand each other? I totally hated what Louis Cole (Fun for Louis; famous Youtube vlogger) did while there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCpTzA6SKc

But how does he keep that giant tarantula from jumping off the back of his head?!

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couldn’t watch it passed skateboarding in an airport. ugh.

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Why would anyone think that skateboarding in an airport is acceptable, let alone permissible?

That said, what was objectionable about his visit to North Korea, other than being a little naive about the situation (i.e., they’re not going to be interacting with ordinary locals)? He wasn’t propagandizing in favor of their regime.

As to whether I would go again, it’s hard to say. It’s a bizarrely fascinating destination, with some interesting sights to see (e.g. the DMZ from the north - I’m one of the few people in the world who has walked into the MAC Building through both doors), and just the feeling of being in the most mysterious and secretive country in the world is a unique experience. But after a few days the overall feeling of oppression, which they try to hide, starts to grind on you. The stark poverty and sorry state of the country and its people is also something they try to hide, but you can see through the cracks in their veil. If I went again, it would be to go to new destinations like Mt. Paektu (though it’s easier to visit from the Chinese side).

I also think it’s good for tourists to go because you get to walk around the city (guided, of course) and ride their subway, and in the process ordinary people see your group. The more tourists who go, the more the locals become used to seeing us in non-threatening situations, which counters their brainwashing and hopefully sows seeds of doubt deep in their minds. It is also eye-opening for the tourists, who believe me are not deluded into thinking NK is a paradise. People have made the same “tourism props up the evil regime” argument about Burma and Cuba, but I don’t buy it.

Well, I think he was a tool used for their propaganda, like Dennis Rodman is. Watching his vlogs I thought what if that was in 1938 and he went to Germany to play with privileged members of that society, teaching them surfing in a beach resort? Watching him make friends with the “real people” of North Korea and then creating a “Life in the DPK” rap song, that all made me sick and angry.

I am all for people going there to help them with their economy, health, academic exchange etc. Surf instructors, rap song composers? That felt very wrong.

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That would make sense, if the authorities weren’t stage managing the whole shebang. As it is, think Potemkin village in reverse.

It’s hard to get to know people who aren’t at liberty to be themselves. First freedom, then cultural exchange. That might work.

Absent that, the tourists get used two ways: their money feeds the regime, and their presence means they serve as propaganda props.

Which would explain why they were so harsh dealing with that warm beer idiot. He didn’t stick to the script. Can’t have that, or it will all fall apart.

Guided is the whole problem. Can’t have it both ways.

He never said anything touting the DPRK government, and he even released a separate video addressing the criticisms he received. He went in knowing full well what a repressive place NK is, as all tourists going there have to attend a pre-trip seminar given not by the NK government, but by the foreign tour operator (as I can personally attest).

I do think he was naive to believe that the people he met were ordinary citizens, because they were not; they were privileged citizens, very likely KITC employees and their families, as it’s the KITC (Korea International Travel Company) that makes the tour arrangements, supervises the tours, and trains its staff.

And yes, the rap video was pukeworthy. Ms. Kim was a good sport about it, at least.

Guided and minded, yes, but not hidden from public view. Indeed, the subway was quite crowded, and there were plenty of people on the streets. No, they’re not actors.

In a society like that, everyone’s an actor. No way to survive otherwise. Because everything’s an act.

In that context, then yes indeed.

And there’s the whole problem. You can’t get to know other people if neither you nor they are free to be themselves.

Freedom has to come first. As it is, the tourists are just unpaid extras in a propaganda show. It’s stupid to lecture about obeying the local rules. The local rules are the problem.

If you want cultural exchange or some such, there’s no point going without an army and air support to back you up. So either invade and overthrow the regime or stay home.

And this is what that sheltered fool did not grasp. He thought there was a middle ground. He tried to cross a chasm in two jumps and now he’s dead. Know the terrain.