Pensions for permanent residents


#21

You mean if you were registered for employment insurance (jiubao) despite being an unmarried foreigner? I reckon they would just call it an error and refund the premiums (unless x years had gone by), but maybe there’s a rule about keeping people in the system.

Also, apparently you’re not allowed to have jiubao if you’re considered a civil servant (Employment Insurance Act Art. 5).

An employed worker over 15 and under 65 years of age and with one of the following statuses is required to join this employment insurance program as an insured person through his employer or the organization to which he or she belongs.

  1. An ROC national.
  2. A foreign national, Mainland Chinese citizen, Hong Kong citizen or Macao citizen married to an ROC citizen and having acquired legal residency in ROC.
    An employed worker as described in the preceding paragraph with one of the following statuses shall be ineligible for this insurance program:
  3. A person who is required by law to join the civil servant and teacher insurance program or military personnel insurance.
  4. A person who is already covered by labor insurance benefits for the elderly or old-age pensions for civil servants and teachers.
  5. A person employed by an employer or organization legally exempt from business registration and business tax or legally exempt from business registration and not required to provide uniform invoices as proof of purchase.
    People with two or more employers shall join this insurance program through one of the employers.

#22

So the language below applies to me, a foreign employee of a buxiban? If so, Whoa:

Employers shall appropriate labor pension reserve funds ranging between 2% and 15% of the total monthly wages of their employees and deposit such amount in a designated account. The funds in said account may not be used as an assignment, seizure, offset or security object. The central competent authority shall establish regulations on the proportion, procedure and management of the funds to be appropriated and present them to the Executive Yuan for approval.

http://laws.mol.gov.tw/Eng/FLAWDAT0201.aspx?lsid=FL014930

I’ve never bothered to look at that part of the Labor Standards Act, and I don’t recall my employer ever withholding any amounts for a pension. I knew about the National Pension and the Labor Pension, but since I’m not married, I’ve always just figured I was toast on that score. Anyway, I doubt that any of this is going to work out so that I get a pension, but it’s certainly interesting–no sarcasm.

My employer and I have gotten used to each other over the years, and they’ve put up with me, and, well, I guess I like them. I certainly wouldn’t want to lock horns with them about this, not that I would even have a case–but that’s not to doubt your information.

For Ignatius, “it is here in the Crescent City that I am assured of having a roof over my head and a Dr. Nut in my stomach.” For me it’s New Taipei City and a biandang. So I try to maintain a little bit of gratitude–just a little bit. :slight_smile:

But anyway, this is news to me, and it’s very interesting. Thanks for the info, @yyy


#23

Tbh I only ever skimmed that part and the official interpretations of it, and I don’t know of any disputes between employers and foreigners involving it. I’ll see if I can find some later.

The word translated as appropriate is 提撥, for whatever that’s worth.

Edit:

http://law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/LawContent.aspx?PCODE=N0030004
Regulations for the Allocation and Management of the Workers’ Retirement Reserve Funds Art. 3

When the accumulated funds appropriated by the business entity are sufficient to pay labor pensions to the workers, the business entity may, through the review and approval of the labor pension reserve supervision committee therein, apply to the local competent authority for ratification to suspend appropriation of contributions to the labor pension reserve.


#24

Oh, I’m not doubting your word, and I wouldn’t mind getting a pension at all, even a small one. :slight_smile:

But it kind of reminds me of the five-day workweek, which my cram school just started, by the way. I don’t go to staff meetings, so I was informed about it on a Friday evening. I was thinking stuff like, “Now, wait a minute, they’re not actually gonna do this, are they? Lemme check outside for flying pigs.” Sure enough, though, we got Saturday off.

But already, I’m reading in the papers about flak from mayors and county magistrates. I think one county magistrate has said it won’t be enforced. I’m like, “Now that’s more like it.”

I figure there surely must be some kind of double-secret-probation thing that will prevent me from getting a pension:


#25

Suspending the new overtime rules for five years was just a suggestion, though Premier Lin said enforcement would only start later this year.


#26

Now I know I was right to stay out of that thread until I felt better. In the post below the one you linked to, Icon described some really depressing working and living conditions.

Anyway, at my outfit we’ve had a couple of Saturdays off. So there’s that. I feel sad for those Southeast Asian folks, though.

Oh, and thanks again, @yyy, for the added info about enforcement of the five-day workweek, and about conditions under which an employer is excused from contributing to a retirement fund.


#27

Update: yes, the key is the word tibo.

查勞工退休準備金制度係勞動基準法第56條課予「雇主」為其所僱勞工按月提撥勞工退休準備金,並每年檢視足額提撥,以預作支付勞工退休金之準備制度。**基此,勞工退休準備金之提撥係屬雇主法定義務,不可由員工薪資中扣除。**如仍有疑義,請逕洽工作所在地之勞工行政主管機關(縣市政府勞工局、處或社會局、處),較為迅捷。

Key sentence: Based on this, the appropriation/allocation [tibo] of the worker’s retirement pension fund is the employer’s legal obligation and cannot be deducted from a staff member’s salary.

Source: MOL email.


#28

An unfortunate reality is that many employers at private institutions will intentionally under-report your earnings to the government, thus proportionally reducing your retirement savings. Your boss will say to you that he or she is saving you taxes, meanwhile, in reality he is only helping himself as your tax deductions may already be sufficient to help you out with the tax office. It is hard to speak up against such injustice if you want to continue on at your job. I wish the government would tighten the system in this regard as well.


#29

Update:

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201710310018.aspx

Actually, this article isn’t only about pensions for permanent residents, but it does mention:

Meanwhile, foreign white-collar workers who have been approved for permanent residency will be eligible for inclusion in Taiwan’s labor pension system and upon retirement have the option of either a lump-sum payment or a monthly pension.


#30

Plus now we can officially stay 5 years out of the country instead of 2.


#31

Now I just need to find out what my next steps are to participate in this Pension Act. Any advice? Starting with the typical Google search for now…


#32

My experience has been that employers can do this, but they are not obligated to. And the result when given such a choice is obvious.

My wife is a housewife. She pays a very small amount every two months (less than NT$2,000) that will work as a pension when she reaches a certain age (can’t remember now). I imagine it would be a simple matter to do something similar. I imagine also that you could increase the amount paid if this is desired. I will update with a picture of information on that bill when it next arrives if this hasn’t been answered by then.


#33

I’m interested in this. Please somebody explain it to me in plain English like if I were (more) retarded.


#34

Interestingly, it seems none of the Chinese articles I’ve found mention the part about permanent residents being eligible for the Pension Act. Would like to find it in Chinese so I can show it to my HR people. I’m really the only English speaker in the company, so I’ll keep looking…

Edit: Just found one! http://www.cna.com.tw/news/firstnews/201710315008-1.aspx
Edit 2: And another. https://www.udn.com/news/story/7314/2790274


#35

The final version isn’t at law.moj.gov.tw yet.


#36

What I’m having trouble figuring out is who exactly this law applies to. The definition of foreign professionals is less than clear: 外國專業人才:指得在我國從事專業 工作之外國人 It’s one of those non-definition definitions.

Update: According to the Labor Law, “foreign professionals” basically seems to refer to anyone here on a work visa.


#37

Apparently the pension part only applies to PR’s, and presumably it won’t be limited to “special” or “outstanding” PR’s, but we’ll see.


#38

Somewhere in Taiwan is a bank account with my pension payments in it. Will they ever see the light of day?


#39

It would appear to apply to anyone here on a work visa who has permanent residency.

第十一條
受聘僱從事專業工作之外國專 業人才,並經內政部移民署許可永久居留 者,自本法施行之日起,適用勞工退休金 條例之退休金制度。


#40

I think it is determined by Article 46 of Employment Service Act.