There is another thread about the new pope, but it’s basically filled with pope jokes. On a more serious note, the Catholic Church cardinals have elected a new pope, and he will have signifcant influence over the church and its 1 billion members during his reign. In some ways, the cardinals’ choice is encouraging. His given name is Jorge Mario Bergoglio, and he is from Argentina. He took the name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi, a humble friar who lived in poverty, administered to the poor, and founded three religious orders (within the Catholic Church) during his lifetime. He is the first pope to take the name Francis. He is the first pope from outside of Europe in 1000 years. He is the first Jesuit pope. When he was elected, he refused to sit on the White Throne in the Sistine Chapel as his fellow cardinals congratulated him, as is customary. He refused to stand on a platform during his first blessing to his followers at St. Peter’s Square. He refused to wear papal regalia during the blessing, wearing only a simple white cossock. He asked the crowd to pray for him first. Before he was pope, when he was first elected as cardinal, he told his supporters in Buenos Aires not to pay for the flight and hotels and other travel costs to see him elevated to cardinal in Rome, but to give the money to the poor instead. He lived in a simple apartment instead of the cardinal’s palace. He cooked all his own meal. He refused to be chauffeured in a limo, choosing instead to take public transportation.
He is very clearly, a humble man. Peggy Noonan noted in an article today that the abuse scandal of the church was founded in arrogance - specifically, the belief that special people like priests deserve special privileges, and any abuse can just be handled by the church internally. Francis I seems entirely without arrogance. I think there is a good chance he will take a dim view towards abuse of children by priests.
He’s not perfect, or an ideal choice in my view. He’s rabidly anti-gay marriage and adoption, and led the effort against the Argentinian president as she tried to legalize both (she succeeded, he failed). But he’s also a 76 year old Catholic priest, so this isn’t a big surprise. Still, altogether I think he is a good choice for a church no longer taken seriously even by many of its followers. St. Francis believed God called him to fix his broken church. I think Francis I has heard the same call.
Sadly, I think he will continue to follow most the Man made interpretations of Biblical teachings to the letter. That would be a shame because on the one hand he has been complaining about how many sick children there are in the World,which is commendable,without realizing that the Roman Catholic Church is responsible ,in part,for some of the STDs that cause so much illness and even death. I fear that policy will remain.
You mentioned his humility,which is again commendable.
My thoughts are that ,surely, that should be a pre-requisite for a Vocation like the Priesthood? However you are probably correct to see this as a plus,in that he is a minority in the RC Church,as it is now.
I think he will hopefully redirect funds to more appropriate recipients and cut down on the Pomp and luxury.That ,I fear will be the only change we see.
Pray that I am wrong !
And yet nobody ever supplied any evidence to support those rumors. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I remain optimistic that he won’t stand for covering up priestly abuses. It seems likely he was elected because his fellow cardinals think so too. I think he at least deserves a chance.
And yet nobody ever supplied any evidence to support those rumors. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Similar to the child abuse?
I don’t have a problem with the guy as the new man in white. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as those before him. I’ll be surprised if he’s the new dawn you suggest, but I hope that he is.
What a completely absurd comparison. No, it isn’t similar at all to the child abuse cases at all. The multitude of victim testimonies, witnesses, and supporting church documentation revealed during hundreds of court cases in dozens of countries over decades provides a mountain of evidence not only of child abuse but of a church hierarchy determined to cover it up. There’s simply no comparison to wild accusations from what, one author? If Francis really did allow two priests to be captured and tortured by the military junta during the Dirty War, somebody is going to unearth hard evidence. Personally, I doubt it, as it seems completely out of character for the man. But again, we’ll see.
What a completely absurd comparison. No, it isn’t similar at all to the child abuse cases at all. The multitude of victim testimonies, witnesses, and supporting church documentation revealed during hundreds of court cases in dozens of countries over decades provides a mountain of evidence not only of child abuse but of a church hierarchy determined to cover it up. There’s simply no comparison to wild accusations from what, one author? If Francis really did allow two priests to be captured and tortured by the military junta during the Dirty War, somebody is going to unearth hard evidence. Personally, I doubt it, as it seems completely out of character for the man. But again, we’ll see.[/quote]
It is a similar stance by the Church: they have not allowed the truth to come out, and the disputed to defend themselves/face the music. Again, the Church has stood above the Law.
Hence, we are faced with the dilemma now: lack of credibility. Probably Bergoglio wasn’t even involved, but with the precedent of the Church’s other actions -helping “re-locate” kids of the missing, for instance, standing in favor of the regime, etc. this has become another weapon his detractors can use against him.
Remember: the Church in Latin America is a very strong political power, mostly populated by the elite, with very deep pockets and a lot of entitlement. religion and charity come very last in the bottom of the list of their tasks.
What a completely absurd comparison. No, it isn’t similar at all to the child abuse cases at all. The multitude of victim testimonies, witnesses, and supporting church documentation revealed during hundreds of court cases in dozens of countries over decades provides a mountain of evidence not only of child abuse but of a church hierarchy determined to cover it up. There’s simply no comparison to wild accusations from what, one author? If Francis really did allow two priests to be captured and tortured by the military junta during the Dirty War, somebody is going to unearth hard evidence. Personally, I doubt it, as it seems completely out of character for the man. But again, we’ll see.[/quote]
I don’d think that the comparison is absurd. Both are about silence or inaction when one knows that something wrong has happened. At the time that the child abuse claims were originally made they were dismissed by the Church because of a lack of evidence. What followed was a concerted effort to deny at every turn. You are referring to a mountain of evidence that has now come to light only because the Vatican was forced into a corner. They didn’t want to admit/pay out until they had to.
Neither of us have any idea what role Francis actually played during the late 70s. Time will tell. However, I somehow find it difficult to believe that a new pope would be elected who would rock the boat. Why is this pope going to be different than those who came before him? Even Roger Mahoney voted for God’s sake. Like elects like.
[quote=“Gao Bohan”]When he was elected, he refused to sit on the White Throne in the Sistine Chapel as his fellow cardinals congratulated him, as is customary. He refused to stand on a platform during his first blessing to his followers at St. Peter’s Square. He refused to wear papal regalia during the blessing, wearing only a simple white cossock. He asked the crowd to pray for him first. Before he was Pope, when he was first elected as cardinal, he told his supporters in Buenos Aires not to pay for the flight and hotels and other travel costs to see him elevated to cardinal in Rome, but to give the money to the poor instead. He lived in a simple apartment instead of the cardinal’s palace. He cooked all his own meal. He refused to be chauffeured in a limo, choosing instead to take public transportation.
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well, that’s a start for change…
i wonder if there will ever be a real female pope.
Basically he was a “good German”. He knew what was happening, “deplored the excesses” as they always say, but considered the junta the lesser of two evils when compared to Marxism. He had after all been put in place to suppress the rot of Liberation Theory inside the Jesuits.
[quote] Adolfo Perez Esquivel, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for defending human rights during the dictatorship, said Bergoglio “tried to… help where he could” under the junta.
“It’s true that he didn’t do what very few bishops did in terms of defending the human rights cause, but it’s not right to accuse him of being an accomplice,” he told Reuters.
“Perhaps he didn’t have the courage of other priests, but he never collaborated with the dictatorship,” he told Radio de la Red in Buenos Aires
…
“Verbitsky is not wrong, but he doesn’t understand the complexity of Bergoglio’s position back then when things were so dangerous,” said Robert Cox, former editor of the Buenos Aires Herald, the only Argentinian newspaper to report the murders at the time. “He can’t see how difficult it was to operate under those circumstances.”
But Cox, who moved to North Carolina after death threats against his family in 1979, suggests Bergoglio could have done more.
“I don’t think he gave [the two priests] in,” he said. “But Bergoglio didn’t protect them, he didn’t speak out.”
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People said the same thing about Pius XII during and after World War II. That he was somehow pro-fascist. A lot of labor party leaders/religious leaders in Israel sure didn’t think so:
“Many Jewish officials and leaders praised Pius after the war for saving Jewish lives including Israel’s first foreign minister, Moshe Sharett; his successor and later Israeli prime minister, Golda Meir; Israel’s first president, Chaim Weizmann; and Israel’s first chief rabbi, Rabbi Herzog.”
If Pope Francis helped innocent people out quietly and behind the scenes during the Dirty War, then that’s a good thing. That being said, when the left and right wings of Peronism started to fracture/split in the 70s (with the right wing military faction gaining control), it was a good thing for Church leaders to lay low. Many were probably suspect with some adhering to certain strains of “liberation theology.” By working behind the scenes and helping out where he could without being too activist, he rose to positions of power (despite Jesuit opposition to usually accepting higher positions). Had he rocked the boat so early in his career, he likely wouldn’t have risen to his current position.
He was ambitious in a time of great instability and played it safe. His family, friends, and the many thousands of poor that he has helped since are probably very thankful for that. Being a martyr for a bunch of leftist thugs who lost a power struggle (and who would have likely done the same thing if they got into power) is hardly a noble act!!!
[quote]While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules.
…
In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.
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Note he is not saying private charity can fill the gap; he’s specifically talking about the right of governments to impose controls on unequal distribution of income
That’s gonna be a tough pill to swallow for Paul Ryan and Rick Santorum. If the Pope is infallible in their eyes, how will they resolve the inner dilemma?
Love this pope. He’s seen all the ups and downs in Argentina and lives frugally. Even though I’m not a Christian Jesus message was clear. Help the poor and don’t be selfish.
Yes it has- but the point is emphasis. JPII and especially Benedict focused most of their attention on social conservatism- abortion , contraception, homosexuality.
Especially in the US, where the USCCB has been acting as the Catholic Auxiliary of the Republican Party.
A more left-wing approach, based in Latin-American Catholic social teaching, could change the emphasis a lot- again, noticeable just recently at the last meeting of US bishops.
[quote]Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.
The leader of the world’s 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.
He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.
“Even them, everyone,” the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. “We all have the duty to do good,” he said.
“Just do good and we’ll find a meeting point,” the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: “But I don’t believe. I’m an atheist.”
Francis’s reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers. [/quote]
