Lawmakers began taking the idea of same-sex marriage seriously today for the first time. It's become clear that both KMT lawmakers and the administration are against the idea of extending equal rights to Taiwan's GLBT community, making them analogous to Republicans when it comes to unwillingness to accept the changing values of the world. Sadly, I think this is going to quickly devolve into a partisan issue with the DPP supporting same-sex marriage and the KMT opposing it -- and they don't even have the lame excuse of religion to fall back on.
The excuses those legislators from KMT made were just laughable and tasteless.
But well, at least this is a start, we all know that the bill isn't gonna pass any time soon, this is still Homophasia after all.
Maybe we should push civil union first, it's not good enough, but at least it's something.
Or maybe we can see what our Constitutional Court will respond, I heard that the issue has already been sent for Constitutional review.
There's been a gay association with an office in our building for a long time. I noticed recently they changed their name to the "Association for Promoting Same-Sex Civil Partnerships" or something like that.
Traditional notions of family here are pretty strong and may as well be religious in nature. I guess there's nowhere else in Asia with even formal civil unions, is there?
No there isn't. When a country like Taiwan is deemed the most "liberal" society in a continent, you know how terribly unliberal that continent is. Even some parts of Africa are better.
Israel has unregistered cohabitation and recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside of Israel, though, but we all know that Israel is more European than Asian.
This is, I think, the disconnect between myself and many of my fellow Americans. What does believing that a union between 2 people of opposite genders and 2 people of the same genders have to do with religion? It's a cultural thing too.
Taiwan isn't that much more conservative then the west in this regard. Polls over the last couple of years have shown a clear majority of people support gay marriage, at about the same ratio as in the US and Europe. The KMT is on the wrong side of public opinion on this issue, though that's true of just about every issue these days.
Many religions explicitly forbid same sex relations. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, for example.
Is that true?
This is the most recent polling data I'm aware of, from earlier this month:
Lots of the same ol' talk about gay marriage leading to sex with animals :loco:
Don't forget all of the social unrest and upsetting the religious community. My favorite, however, was the reasoning that if gay people were to get married, inheritance would pass to the spouse and children of gay couples leaving the parents with nothing...as if that isn't what happens with straight married couples? Again, I can only say :loco:
And there was the KMT legislator who brought up America's past slavery and the 3/5's rule-I still have no idea what the point was. I can only imagine it was something like "You say America doesn't discriminate, but over 150 years ago they had a law that treated slaves as less than human, so I see no reason we shouldn't continue to discriminate...so there...."
I am fully in support of gay marriage and I will be quite happy if Taiwan becomes the first country in East Asia to allow it. Given that many parts of the U.S., still prohibit gay marriage (and even its federal status s not entirely coequal with straight marriage), I think Taiwanese can be rightly proud that they have managed to push this issue so far already (even my home state of California only allowed it in the last couple of years). Unfortunately, though it appears that this bill is going to be stalled in the LY. taipeitimes.com/News/front/a ... 2003607386
I've listened to many arguments from the Religious Right I the US about how gay marriage will "undermine the family." And while there is sometimes reference to "Judeo-Christian" values my sense is that most serious anti-gay marriage groups try not to base their arguments solely on the idea that "the Bible forbids it." Of course, my personal view is that most anti gay marriage folks in the US are motivated but religious intolerance and bigotry irrespective of what they say.
In my own Taiwanese family and circle of friends in the US, the vast majority of people seem to be in favor of gay marriage. I have gay relatives and friends who grew up here; they were very worried about parental nonacceptance on "coming out." In one case it ultimately went very well, where the parents were extremely accepting and have incorporated his long term partner into the family. In the other case, it was a little rockier. The parents say they "accept" it, but they don't want to ever talk about it and have asked those of us who know to refrain from mentioning it (or her partner) in public.
For those of you familiar with the Taiwanese American (and perhaps the greater Asian American) community, you may be aware that there is a definite streak of evangelical Christianity. I think the combination of some aspect of Christianity and Confucianism form the basis of the opposition some have to gay marriage, but I wouldn't solely attribute such views to either source.
There are plenty of cases like Ang Lee's "The Banquet," where the parents basically say: Son, we know you're gay, and that's OK. But you still have to give us grandkids.
I love that movie, I think that is my favorite movie he made. It really highlights some of the ambiguity of Chinese culture. Cosmetically conservative, but internally permissive as long as your dont rock the boat.
It's strange to see this issue moving towards partisan lines, if that is indeed the case. In the past, there have been KMT people in support of marriage equality as well as DPP people against it, especially as the Presbyterian Church has strong ties to the DPP. Ting Shou-chung, for example, was at the last pro-marriage equality rally. But then again, foreigners, particularly Americans, have always tended to see Blue-Green dynamics here in terms of Republican-Democratic values, which is needless to say less than accurate.
I think Ting Shou-chung is the odd one out. The same-sex marriage issue has been off most politicians' radars for the most part, and now that it's coming to the forefront they're being forced to take a side. The loudest voices in support of marriage equality have come from the DPP (Cheng Li-chiun and Yu Mei-nu among them) while the loudest voices opposing have come from the KMT (Wang Chien-shian, Lin Hung-chih, Tsai Cheng-yuan among them). It's not a partisan issue yet, but it's rapidly moving in that direction.
You're right that many churches have strong DPP ties, but considering how small the Christian population in Taiwan is, it doesn't really matter much.
Those protesting marriage equality have been largely Christian groups, and the protests themselves seem to have been funded, according to Michael Cole, by US Christian organizations. Lawmakers on both sides have come and gone from supporting to protesting the issue, according to whether they can benefit politically from it.
from what I observed on PTT, the discourse of conservatives have moved into the next phase. They used to be totally against any kind of gay marriage, now they are just against homosexual couples adopting and raising children.
Yeah, that was what I was expecting in the two situations I had first hand experience in. But surprisingly, my understanding is that there was no parental pressure for kids in either case. Of course, this is happening in the Taiwanese American context, so there are probably different factors at work.
I'd say the DPP has been moving towards becoming more of a traditional liberal party under Tsai Ing Wen. Her presidential campaign was centered around social/economic justice, after all.
I'd be in favor of putting it to a referendum vote.