Same-sex marriage legislation


#21

Deciding whether to let minorities have civil rights through the ballot box seems like a pretty awful idea to me.


#22

Deciding whether to let minorities have civil rights through the ballot box seems like a pretty awful idea to me.[/quote]

Yeah, democracy sucks. Why should the Taiwanese public have any say in making a major change to their society?

The Taiwanese should wise up and let foreigners posting on Forumosa decide these things.


#23

I agree. It’s an especially awful idea given Taiwan’s “birdcage” referendum laws in which initiatives can be killed by simply staying at home.

Guy


#24

Whoah, buddy, slow down! We’ve gotten this far because of the huge efforts made by the local LGBT community over the years–not because of the views expressed by members of our tiny imperfect community here at Forumosa. No serious advocate for LGBT rights in Taiwan would suggest otherwise.

Guy


#25

Deciding whether to let minorities have civil rights through the ballot box seems like a pretty awful idea to me.[/quote]

Yeah, democracy sucks. Why should the Taiwanese public have any say in making a major change to their society?

The Taiwanese should wise up and let foreigners posting on Forumosa decide these things.[/quote]

Yeah, because that’s what I said. Take the strawman bullshit somewhere else, please.


#26

Deciding whether to let minorities have civil rights through the ballot box seems like a pretty awful idea to me.[/quote]

Yeah, democracy sucks. Why should the Taiwanese public have any say in making a major change to their society?

The Taiwanese should wise up and let foreigners posting on Forumosa decide these things.[/quote]
Just stop.


#27

now KMT legislator Lu Xuezhang (呂學樟), has resorted to the next level of anti-same-sex-marriage discourse, claiming it would open up the flood gates to things such as bestiality because if same sex couples can get married, what’s stopping people from marrying their dog.

ettoday.net/news/20141222/442010.htm

[quote]立法院22日排審同性婚姻法案。國民黨立委呂學樟發言時脫口說出,「同性結婚可以人獸交,可以什麼交,我們看不清楚啦,看了真的很可怕。」

The legislative yuan went over the same sex marriage act on the 22nd. KMT legislator Lu Xuezhang commented on the floor "same sex marriage advocates are also into bestiality, basically they’ll do just about anything. We can’t see clearly what they are planning because we don’t ever want to, it’s terrifying. [/quote]

Welcome to the 1990s, Legislator Lu… check out the Daily Show, you aren’t saying anything new.


#28

Deciding whether to let minorities have civil rights through the ballot box seems like a pretty awful idea to me.[/quote]

Yeah, democracy sucks. Why should the Taiwanese public have any say in making a major change to their society?

The Taiwanese should wise up and let foreigners posting on Forumosa decide these things.[/quote]

Completely missed the point. Supporters of same-sex marriage (like me) feel it is a basic civil right that is being kept from a minority of the population. If we take that as a given, putting the issue to a vote does not fulfill the government’s role of ensuring equal protection to all citizens because civil rights aren’t matters you can agree with or disagree with. This is also why many cases in the US have been decided by courts rather than by votes. But Taiwan’s courts are followers, not leaders, so we can’t realistically have those same expectations.


#29

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]Yeah, democracy sucks. Why should the Taiwanese public have any say in making a major change to their society?

The Taiwanese should wise up and let foreigners posting on Forumosa decide these things.[/quote]
Oh wow, right! Democracy! How could we all be so silly and selfish not to want what we do with our own lives put up to a vote by the general population. In fact, since there are at least a few Taiwanese who are concerned with interracial marriage and breeding “damaging” the gene pool, perhaps that needs to be on the ballot as well. Now that I think about it, since every marriage seems to have such a profound impact on society at large, maybe every marriage should be on the ballot individually. This is a democracy after all! We should all decide the value of your marriage. I certainly wouldn’t want your marriage shoved down my throat.

Having found inspiration from the insights into democracy provided by one canine’s morning meal, I’m going to return to my home country and campaign for putting slavery, segregation, women’s suffrage, and interracial marriage on the ballot nationally. I’m not in favor of changing anything, but there was never a proper vote! Seems only right to do so in a democracy…
:loco:


#30

I don’t know where to put this, but I don’t want to start a new thread.

During the Golden Bell Awards last week (GBA is Taiwan’s equivalent of the Emmy Awards), Li Tianzhu (Mark Li 李天柱), the winner of the best male lead of a TV mini-series said in the backstage interview that he is against homo-sexuality because it leads to human extinction.

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/taiwanese-actor-goes-homophobic-rant-receiving-prestigious-acting-award/

In his acceptance speech, Li first said he believes God chose him to win the award for a reason, before reciting the Lord’s Prayer in full. When reporters asked about why he recited the prayer backstage, Li said:

[quote]I want to make it public that I don’t condone homosexuality. homosexuality leads to human extinction. Homosexuality is wrong. That’s why I turn down homosexuality themed projects. I don’t want to end up as a spokesman for homosexuals, I don’t want to support them, and I won’t turn my back against my faith for money.

Homosexuality is a curse for our future generation.

我公開講,我不支持同性戀,同性戀會造成人類滅絕,同性戀是錯的,所以我不演同志片,我不願為了他們代言、背書,不會為了錢背棄我的信仰

同性戀對後代子孫而言是個詛咒
[/quote]


Part of his backstage rant.

His homophobic speech has ignited a new round of discussion about the society’s attitude towards the LGBT community, and many celebrities came forward to condemn his speech.

In the aftermath, Li said he has many homosexual friends, and the speech isn’t about singling out individuals, but to comment on the morality of homosexuality, claiming the two are different issues.


#31

http://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Live/Single/18/11123/live/09:00

Same sex marriage is being deliberated in the committee. Christian groups have stormed the legislature, but they have not interfered with the deliberation.

The NPP legislator Kawlo Iyun Pacidal is currently speaking. Many KMT Aboriginal legislators are going to speak later, I’m assuming they will take an opposing position.

Edit:

hmm… all other legislators on the committee are not present. So no KMT Aboriginal legislator is going to speak on the issue.


#32

Those Christian groups are such fucking morons.

I saw a Facebook post from them claiming that this child rapist celebrity is better than gay because at least he’s hetero.

These KMT legislators are a bunch of lowlives too. Fucking cunts. I’m so over all these vomit-inducing Taiwanese political scenes.


#33

Not all the Christian groups are radicals in Taiwan.
Taiwan has so many religions and some of them are ridiculous to me,
for example, the guy below is really ridiculous to me, he called himself Buddha.

But there are still many people believe him.

Same-sex marriage legislation is a big issue to Taiwan,
hope Taiwan can be the first Asia country same-sex marriage legal.

Love should be equal.


#34

Regarding the upfront homophobia currently being expressed by various Christian groups in Taiwan: I have felt for a while that this might be the time for an intervention, not dissimilar to what happened to the founder of Tzu Chi back in the day. This story takes me to the excellent 9th edition of the Taiwan Lonely Planet:

Two chance events in 1966 set the stage for the most important phase in Cheng Yen’s life: the formation of Tzu Chi. In the first incident, Cheng Yen saw a poor aboriginal woman die of a miscarriage. In the second, not long after, Cheng Yen was challenged by three Catholic nuns over why Buddhists, with their concept of universal love, do no charity work.

Cheng Yen’s response to the challenge came a few months later. Rather than accept a cushy position as a lecturer in Chiayi, she stayed in Hualien, and sensing the latent power of Taiwanese society to do good, started the Tzu Chi Buddhist Humanitarian Compassion Society. (from page 177)

Here we are in 2016, fifty years after these events. Is this not the time for Christians in Taiwan to be repaid the favour, and to be challenged to live up to their beliefs? It’s high time to ditch the homophobia and to link up beliefs and praxis.

Guy


#35

I don’t give a flying fuck about their beliefs. There are churches that happily hang rainbow flags off their fucking bell towers and Catholics attending gay pride parade.

The reality is that these protestors are just fucking brainless feeble-minded cunts. I hope they all die violently.

Fucking bullshit. :middle_finger::middle_finger::middle_finger:


#36

Gain: I am having trouble understanding your position. Could you please stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think? :slight_smile:

Guy


#37

I think religion is just their excuse. They are nothing more than a bunch of poorly-educated lowlives.

I guess that’s clear enough?


#38

Not all the Christian group are so rude to them. Sometimes the priest is old and traditional, and the followers are believing them from children to adults. It’s not easy to change old man’s thoughts about the same-sex marriage issue, so are the followers will follow the priest thoughts.

I really hope Taiwan will be the first country pass the Same-sex marriage legislation, Love should be equal, every one should be respected.

But in the other hand, I know the feeling of Gain, because some groups are really fucking rude to homosexuality, they use violence not only by language but also use physical violence, I’m angry about this behavior and I hope the JUSTICE will punish them.

I need to say, even though Taiwan pass the Same-sex marriage legislation, Taiwan still has a long way to overcomes difficulties about this issue, hope one day everyone can respect everyone’s life selection.


#39

I think it would be a positive thing to have a majority of the population support marriage equality in a referendum, like what happened in Ireland. I can tell you that gay people in Ireland were pretty happy about that. And Ireland was super homophobic even ten years ago. But it still passed.


#40

About the prospect of holding a referendum: you are aware of the conditions of such actions in Taiwan, right? The high turnout threshold mandated by law allows almost any group of people to kill any initiative simply by staying home. Until these conditions change, it’s a worthless way to set policy or even gauge public opinion in Taiwan.

Guy