Social dilemma English vs Chinese

Hey guys i got into a wierd dilemma last weekend. I am a white american living in taiwan. I met this taiwanese girl and she invited me to hang out with her good friends. She introduced me to everyone including the host, Peter. Everyone was nice including peter. About 2 hours in Peter, said wait a moment, why are we all speaking english? Peter is an ABC. He asked the group why are we all speaking english just for Jesse(me). He says in all his life in the US, the group would have never changed the language to chinese even if they could speak chinese let alone be invited to hang out. He then spoke of his experiences in the US to the people who’ve never been or only visited. They switched back to talking in mandarin and my friend the girl who invited me had to translate everything for the duration of the night because i dont understand chinese well. Was Peter a douche?

It depends, I suppose, on the size of the group and their collective fluency. If everyone is comfortable speaking English, then yeah, he was. OTOH if several of them were clearly bored and struggling, it probably isn’t fair to expect everyone to play along just for you.

I can recall a similar dilemma in France. Nobody even considered the possibility of speaking English. My gf translated the incomprehensible bits, but basically I was left to fend for myself.

The lesson is, I suppose, is: get thee to a Chinese class forthwith :slight_smile:

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Locals are very sensitive and childish about language and race. The ABC although not really a local perhaps has a bit of chip on his shoulder towards whitie, or a huge one, this is quite common. Going out of his way to bring up the issue of language is a red flag. Yes he is a douche!

They spoke English for 2 hours which is very generous of them. No issues at all that the crowd reverted back to Chinese. The lady translating for you is sweet and a prelude to sex

I’d speculate this situation similar to this. He probably does have some animosity towards the particular race(s), especially if he is an ABC. I’ve noticed quite of few ABCs who’d struggle upon arriving in Taiwan and trying to make a living. They somehow seem to get an idea that their experiences and change of culture (back to Taiwan) lead them to be condescending in many ways, and they’d get offended if other race(s) interfere with their obscure “superiority.”

And I’m Asian, (but not Taiwanese) so I hope my view is somewhat relative. I admit that I faced a similar situation when I was in Japan. (As a Japanese growing up in the States.) So I hope I’m not just talking out of my a$$.

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Huge douche. As if a situation could ever arise in the US where a bunch of white Americans happened to be able to speak Chinese and a Chinese person was with them and yet everyone refused to speak Chinese. In fact from my own experience in Europe, outside of France young Europeans are often happy to converse in English for the benefit of an English speaking guest. ABC’s can be tiresome, some of them patronize westerners in Taiwan for not being “Chinese” and they patronize Taiwanese for not being “American”. I’m not sure what they bring to the table except for Daddy’s money.

on the bright side, your new gf sounds like a keeper.

Shes not my gf. Just a new friend i met.

Ah. Friend zone. OK. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Actually Peter does seems like a douche, but…
If you are staying here long term, I would take advantage of it. I have the hardest time trying to get locals to speak Chinese with me. Sounds like it could work to your advantage if you use it as a class and try to practice.

I am an ABC but have never lived in Taiwan (as opposed to extended visits) and thus can’t speak to what the attitudes of ABCs are there. My Chinese is conversational only (at best) and my experience in Taiwan and the US among Chinese speakers is that they usually default to English around me even when I ask them not to.

It seems rude to intentionally switch to another language to purposefully exclude someone. But it seems also quite privileged to think that locals in another country should have to use a foreign language to accommodate a foreigner in a third party social setting. In a US social setting with mostly English language natives it would never occur to me that everyone should all switch to Chinese to accommodate a single person for an extended period (unless perhaps that person was invited as a guest of honor or something).

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I think we all agree any group can speak any language or variations on it for example having two or three languages going at the same time or they speak Chinese you speak English and a big mix mashup thing going on. Unless it’s special guest or boss or some such situation.

The OP sounds quite young and fresh to Taiwan so he will figure these things out along the way. Including the bizarre “friend” thing that many guys put themselves through. Watch out for the Peters out there it’s common place just prepare your response for next time “go ahead Peter speak Japanese for all I care!” And don’t be afraid fo loudly and confidently look across the table and “so Mike where did you go to university” or “Julie where do you work” etc etc just because you don’t understand a language being spoken doesn’t mean you can’t get involved.

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Yes, plowing through the situation and still engaging others was the way to handle it.

To other posters: It strikes me that racial animosity is only tangential to this whole discussion, though race is an indirect issue.

My reading of the situation is not so much that Peter had issues towards or about the OP for being white or that everyone was speaking English (though that could be a possibility). It seemed to me that Peter was trying to be the alpha in the group, which is probably normally the case. Ironically, that is also possibly because he is an ABC since that 1) affords him a special status, and 2) living in the US probably made him generally more confident and outgoing than the average Taiwanese.

The problem that Peter had with the situation was that the conversation was in English, which automatically conferred special status (almost automatic alpha status) upon the OP, since typically, Taiwanese would defer to a white person over an ABC due to the misconception that ABCs can’t really speak English.

Whether consciously or not, Peter was aware of that and realised that the way to remove the OP’s special status (indeed, to lower him to the lowest position within the group) was to switch to Chinese, with some subtle guilt/racism by association to cement that.

It was just a power play, though there might be some deeper feelings there.

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OP was invited by someone in that group. It seem really rude to invite someone then shun them by not speaking a common language.

Why was OP invited then if they didn’t want to communicate with him?

I can’t believe they spoke English for two hours personally. Can’t say I ever had that experience.

The host, Peter, didn’t invite the OP, the girl did. There is no indication as to whether she asked the host or others about inviting OP or what language they should speak. If I brought a guest to part hosted by someone else, I certainly wouldn’t expect the host and other guests to accommodate my guest for an extended period of time.

“bizarre “friend” thing”

That’s a thing? What thing is that?

It goes beyond merely switching between languages. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. A group chatting in English and a group chatting in Chinese in Taiwan is COMPLETELY different.

The content and style of the group using Chinese is very difficult for a non-ethnically Chinese person. I’m sorry but it essentially boils down to something this primitive. Then also the Chinese speaking group tends to be more childish and excitable in their content repeatedly laughing in unison at things that the average foreigner might not find funny, or shouting or talking over each other. Very little to no conversation might follow the usual structure that most of us are used to.

Despite all this you can still to some degree get involved it just takes a deeper understanding of local culture and the right frame of mind. Depends a lot on the people in the group too. Business talk is always a good one. Food is an excellent one too

ive never had taiwanese or chinese switch for 2 hours to english for me. anyway, i guess they didn’t mind too much. they like to use their english, we all know it. ask yourself this? would a taiwanese ever do what the ABC did? hell no. more than likely they would try to get a white person who was fluent in chinese to switch to english for their benefit(of practicing english.)

this is simply a case of a butthurt ABC trying to humiliate you. there are many butthurt ABCs around here. eddie huang types who think they are the masters of asian culture and white people in asia are just lazy sex tourist scum.

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And yet it is a bunch of Westerners complaining on the Internet about how horrible it is that Taiwanese people might actually speak Chinese and not accommodate the white person for more than 2 hours. Sounds like the OP is more “butt hurt” about it than any ABC. If not having everyone speak English for his benefit was so hard, OP could just leave the party. If the Taiwanese guests were so comfortable or desired to keep speaking English for so long, they could have continued doing so even after Peter asked people to revert to Chinese.

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Where do you get in this thread that a bunch of Westerners are complaining the crowd didn’t speak English for the sake of the white person? I’ve read and commented on the thread and I read it as meh who gives a shit what language people use.

OP is new and fresh obviously going through culture shock cut him some slack he will learn the system soon enough but important that he does learn yes there really many butt hurt ABCs around. OP grow some balls as they say and enjoy the party. Fuggggebout Peter the ABC!