Social dilemma English vs Chinese

I can’t be a hundred percent sure of it, but I think that’s what I would have done, but probably mainly for another reason, or other reasons, than the one cited immediately above.

I’m not making a distinction there, some people here do seem to have a bias against ABCs. It’s the anecdotal / personal experience aspect that should really be ignored in such discussion because it’s not representative, but in practice this is an unrealistic expectation. People just do that, and most aren’t aware of the more or less subtle irrational beliefs and little lies embedded into their thought process.

I probably addressed your bias because I feel it would affect me - as always, most people are interested in themselves. I would not like to be seen in the light you see OP in, but I do fall into the category of having been in Taiwan for quite a few months and not having learned the language properly. Then again, while I don’t expect anyone to speak English or judge people for not being able to, I obviously will try to communicate in English because that’s all I have for now, and I might make a face if it doesn’t work (because I’m struggling to get stuff done, not as a sign of disapproval). Some people appear to believe that I have no business being here and that I should leave because I can’t communicate in Chinese yet.

Likewise, I extrapolated when I said you’re angry. I’ve read a bunch of comments here and on reddit expressing your viewpoint, and some clearly showed signs of frustration and went on to lash out in a xenophobic way.

We’re all just interacting with a bunch of paragraphs on a screen, and mentally merging information from various sources is how at least I process the sheer amount of it. Obviously you lose some details here and there, and on the other end of the paragraphs you have the individual. The “angry” part was not really directed at you personally.

Well that’s mysterious.

Years and years and hundreds of situations later it’s not hard to fill in the gaps these things take virtually the same form again and again very predictable I can play out the OP’s scene in my head down to the frame.

I’d fire the lot of them. The locals for not doing whatever they want - obviously a bunch of locals chillin in their down time should be speaking Chinese and have the sense of self to switch whenever they want, and let those who prefer to speak English go for it, this is not uncommon, it’s personal choice. The ABC host for not letting things flow naturally, by bringing it up and making a “thing” out of it. And finally the OP for his cultural naivety which I"m sure he is working on after thoroughly studying this thread :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

OP, take advantage of it. It’s hard enough to speak Chinese with Taiwanese (especially if they can speak English). I am repeating myself when I suggest that you use it as an opportunity to learn Chinese, especially if you’re here for a while.

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no thats not the case, they were doing it by choice until peter brought up his life story about how america is so racist towards asian people. honestly its ridiculous to think they would keep talking for 2 hours if they didn’t like it or didn’t have the ability. as far as we know the white guy did nothing to make people speak english, accept the reality mate, they did it by themselves.

i’ve been in this situation a bunch of times in different countrys. if people don’t wanna speak english they ain’t gonna speak english. they won’t get stuck speaking it for 2 hours… and likewise if they can speak it no problem they have no problem switching of their own free will. my guess is they were pretty good and comfortable with english. the only time i’ve had a group speak english to me here, and it wasn’t really a group it was 2 guys from the group, the others were just listening. was when they were all hammered.

nobody really knows the details anyway so its impossible to say if this group had good english or they were really being held up at gun point to speak english so it was impossible for them to switch back. so its largely a pointless discussion. i still conclude the same thing about peter though.

Forget it, man. He’s got a plate in his head from the Drug Wars and, given that it’s after 12 noon, he’s probably drunk AF.

Strngr - fair enough. People will have their biases and approach everything from a personal and experience based viewpoint. I agree that we are all trying to extrapolate a situation from a few short sentences that the OP provides from his point of view. All we can do is provide our perspectives and let the OP pick for himself which view he thinks is correct and how he wants to deal with the situation going forward.

It is a shame there is so little positive interaction between ABCs and white Westerners in Taiwan. ABCs know what it is like to be a linguistic and racial minority and face various kinds of discrimination and stereotypes.

16 posts were split to a new topic: Discrimination faced by ABCs in the US

Yes, we don’t know the details. You and most of the others here want to extrapolate and fill in your version that points to the Taiwanese people willingly speaking English until Peter forces everyone to change. I suggest there is another way of looking at the situation that challenges the likely worldview of the OP. I accept the reality; everyone there was free to speak whatever language they wanted - if you believe that the Taiwanese had the choice as to what language they wanted to speak notwithstanding OP’s presence, I don’t see why you think they suddenly didn’t have such freedom after Peter’s comment.

You mention Peter’s supposed comment on how “america is so racist towards asian people” and “Eddie Huang.” Per the OP, Peter said that no one in America would ever switch from speaking English to Chinese for so long to accommodate a foreigner, and that it was unlikely he (an Asian guy) would get invited to hang out at all - you view this as “racism” but I imagine that most ABCs and foreigners view it as “normal” in the sense that we wouldn’t expect the dominant culture in America to accommodate or privilege us. (if ABC or other minorities are going to talk about American racism in the era of living people, the Japanese American internment, Jim Crow, the death of Vincent Chin, the persecution of Wen Ho Lee, Trump’s Mexican wall, and Black Lives Matter are going to come up first), Eddie Huang’s fame isn’t about Taiwan or “master of Asia” as you put above, it is about his experiences as an Asian American and growing up in America including racist experiences - not sure what the Taiwan connection is either.

I can see how such perspectives might challenge the worldview of those who would prefer to believe in an America free of racial privilege and discrimination, or a Taiwan free of privilege for white English speakers. But you reference the fact that Taiwanese sometimes pay Blacks and Asians less for teaching English - so you know that English and white privilege exist among Taiwanese. I invite you to consider that it exists in social as well as workplace contexts.

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I find this topic quite an interesting one. I’m not from the US so I can’t really comment on the American / ABC part of it. But I have either studied or taught in 4 different countries. 2 in Europe and 2 in Asia.

Normally, when I make friends with locals and I am invited to a ‘party’ (using the term quite loosely here) it turns out to be ‘Story Time with Meldrew’. Whether it be Spain, China or Korea the ‘party’ turns English, for a time, and most people want to ask me questions and talk to me. Mostly, because they’ve not really met a foreigner in a social setting before and partly to practice English. I’ve always found them quite intrigued and wanting to know a lot of stuff about me and where I’m from. Like a Q and A session, or an English Corner at work. Like I said… ‘party’.

I feel like it wasn’t a party we’d come to know from our university days if there were more people it would have fractured into a couple of little groups regardless of how interesting the OP was. If there was music, people wouldn’t be able to hear the OP. It didn’t sound like it, so I would guess there were less than 10 people all in (Of course, I’m filling in the blanks from my own experience) and more of a gathering than a party.

I’d prefer this wasn’t the case, not because I want to use my limited knowledge of their language but because I’m quite introverted and shy. At parties I prefer to ‘hide’ in the crowd and then introduce myself in English 1 to 1… a little easier to do that in Europe.

Now, whether or not Peter was being a douche is not for me to say but what he did has not happened to me before. The gatherings, after a while, start losing interest in the foreigner because a) they’re struggling with the language or/and b) they’re getting drunk so they’re struggling with the language and their attention span is rapidly decreasing. That didn’t appear to be the case in this story.

Back home, I grew up in quite a multicultural town. You get invited to hang out with people if you’re a decent person regardless of your nationality. The fact Peter made a point in saying ‘back in the States you’d not even be invited to hang out’… I guess that’s an indication of problems he faced growing up. It sounds like he hasn’t let them go. However, in my experience:

  1. If you’re a bit of a dick, you won’t get invited.

or

  1. If the people you want to hang out with don’t want to hang out with you then they’re probably dicks and you should find people that do want to hang out with you.

Hopefully the OP comes back and gives us a little more information about his story.

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Peter was and probably consistently is a douche. Don’t hang out with Peter. Problem solved.

What is an “ABC”?

It’s like a BBC, only average.

“American-born Chinese”

Thanks!

You’re funny!

bbc - british born chinese

abt - american born taiwanese

bbb - british born british.

And the most important group, the CBC - Canadian Born Chinese

Do be careful with these terms, as some of them have more than one meaning.