Superhero movies from now - 2020

[quote=“antarcticbeech”]
It just looks so depressingly formulaic. Handsome American white man good guy, evil looking bad guy, token black guy, token woman. I wouldn’t ever consider watching such a movie.[/quote]

Isn’t that true for most TV/movies writers in the US though?

Actually more and more scifi writers are women. Guardians of the Galaxy for example is co-scripted by Nicole Perlman. There were incredibly talented female writers who wrote for Star Trek series, Battlestar Galactica, Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles, Chuck, Heroes and so on. Anne Cofell Saunders, Natalie Chaidez, Gale Anne Hurd to name a few.

As for ethnicity, many early Marvel comic book writers were Jewish, and they write from an angle of being ridiculed, being outcasts, and experiences of their elders being oppressed and displaced. That stuff rings true in any racial social commentary. It’s embedded in stories such as X-men, which some X-men movies did well to capture.

Ironman seems like the flagship now because it was a huge success, but back when Marvel pushed the Ironman project, most people didn’t expect much of it. People probably felt about it the way we feel about Antman right now. What makes Ironman special isn’t that Ironman is a minority, it’s that Tony Stark is an antihero and a douche.

[quote=“antarcticbeech”]I have seen Tetsuo, the Iron Man.

:laughing: Which was very, er, educational, and very much more my taste in film.[/quote]

Itself a comic adaptation.

[quote=“antarcticbeech”]I didn’t have time to reply the other day so apologies for being a little late.

Very similar points quoted below:

I understand this but the writers of superhero stories are almost all white men, aren’t they? And aren’t most of the superheroes themselves white? I did a little googling this afternoon chasing superhero audience demographics (in the West) but didn’t find many hard numbers. But I found debates on race (Superhero Super-Fans Talk Race And Identity In Comics) and gender (Female Characters in Superhero Films: The Grim Reality) which only reinforced my assumptions about the writers. I just feel this is very old hat for me, having white males appropriate female and ethnic characters - it doesn’t change the fact that it is a white male imaginative landscape. I prefer to be challenged by movies, not entertained (I’ve got nothing against people who do want to be entertained). If I watch something like Totoro at least I feel like I’m entering a new cultural space and learning something. But when I see movie posters like this:

It just looks so depressingly formulaic. Handsome American white man good guy, evil looking bad guy, token black guy, token woman. I wouldn’t ever consider watching such a movie. I have seen Tetsuo, the Iron Man.

:laughing: Which was very, er, educational, and very much more my taste in film.[/quote]

I guess they’re all just a bunch of racists and sexists, huh?
Why can’t Captain America be an Asian!!!
If anything, blame the comic book artists. I believe the majority of the characters are based off them. They did decide to change Nick Fury though…
Sure they’ll throw in the token black guy or the woman with big ass titties to appease the black community and the women, but it is what it is.

They write and cast depending on their demographic. If more women watched…actually I don’t even know what they’d change. They already cast the hottest guys to be super heroes. What else do women want? The point is women aren’t the ones who are watching Iron Man 3, 4, 5 times over and over. They watch it once and they’re done. So they notice what the comic book fan boys want and they appease that group.

[quote=“Leftywang81”]Why can’t Captain America be an Asian!!!
If anything, blame the comic book artists.[/quote]

You know this was actually my showerthought today. Most of these comic book heroes have been around for half a century or more and date back to before equality in representation was even really a concept. I think it’s exceptionally dumb that the only black hero in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is from Africa. It makes it very hard for black American audiences to relate to him on anything other than skin color. (Well, there’s Heimdall from Thor, but he’s a very minor role) And I have not seen even a trace of a Latino or Asian or heaven forbid Middle Eastern character.

After I watched Man of Steel, I was hoping Warner Brothers would link it to Christopher Nolan’s Batman series by including Batman but not Bruce Wayne, since he “retired.” The obvious option would have been Joseph Gordon Levitt as a new Batman, but I had another crazy thought: the general played by Harry Lennix could take up the mantle of Batman and become the first black version of the character.

No, they went with Ben Affleck instead. :unamused:

[quote=“Hokwongwei”][quote=“Leftywang81”]Why can’t Captain America be an Asian!!!
If anything, blame the comic book artists.[/quote]

You know this was actually my showerthought today. Most of these comic book heroes have been around for half a century or more and date back to before equality in representation was even really a concept. I think it’s exceptionally dumb that the only black hero in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is from Africa. It makes it very hard for black American audiences to relate to him on anything other than skin color. (Well, there’s Heimdall from Thor, but he’s a very minor role) And I have not seen even a trace of a Latino or Asian or heaven forbid Middle Eastern character.[/quote]

In the comics Rogers appoints Falcon to become the next Captain America, so some versions of Captain America is black in the comics. The new Thor is a woman.

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]
After I watched Man of Steel, I was hoping Warner Brothers would link it to Christopher Nolan’s Batman series by including Batman but not Bruce Wayne, since he “retired.” The obvious option would have been Joseph Gordon Levitt as a new Batman, but I had another crazy thought: the general played by Harry Lennix could take up the mantle of Batman and become the first black version of the character.

No, they went with Ben Affleck instead. :unamused:[/quote]

well… Affleck has been decent in a couple movies in a row already… I’m beginning to be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least more than I’m willing to give Ryan Reynolds…

Ben Affleck is absolutely not Bruce Wayne in my mind, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. (Many people thought Heath Ledger couldn’t do the Joker, after all.) What bothers me is their complete contempt for continuity: make three films that redefine the Batman world for most cinemagoers, and then just three years later throw it all out and start over. It’s an insult to fans, and it’s boring, just like the new Spider-man movies.

I take it you didn’t see Guardians of the Galaxy, then? :smiley:

PS, rumor mill has it that Dr Strange will be played by Benedict Cumberbatch.[/quote]
No, didn’t see it. Couldn’t justify sitting through the whole thing for a brief cameo…[/quote]

You are interested in seeing a Howard the Duck movie but unwilling to give Guardians of the Galaxy a shot? Guardians of the Galaxy was a really fun and entertaining flick. I thought it was better than 90% of the Marvel films…Heck, it might be my favorite Marvel film.

[quote=“Hokwongwei”][quote=“Leftywang81”]Why can’t Captain America be an Asian!!!
If anything, blame the comic book artists.[/quote]

You know this was actually my showerthought today. Most of these comic book heroes have been around for half a century or more and date back to before equality in representation was even really a concept. I think it’s exceptionally dumb that the only black hero in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is from Africa. It makes it very hard for black American audiences to relate to him on anything other than skin color. (Well, there’s Heimdall from Thor, but he’s a very minor role) And I have not seen even a trace of a Latino or Asian or heaven forbid Middle Eastern character.

After I watched Man of Steel, I was hoping Warner Brothers would link it to Christopher Nolan’s Batman series by including Batman but not Bruce Wayne, since he “retired.” The obvious option would have been Joseph Gordon Levitt as a new Batman, but I had another crazy thought: the general played by Harry Lennix could take up the mantle of Batman and become the first black version of the character.

No, they went with Ben Affleck instead. :unamused:[/quote]

No blacks or mexicans or middle eastern characters because no one would watch it. By no one, I mean less–much less.
Call it like it is. Its not a coincidence that The Princess and the Frog did not do as well at the box office compared to the other Disney princess movies. Was it because of the black girl? Or maybe it was the frog? I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it was because the girl was black. Same thing with Mulan. RACIAL~ Haha but it IS what it IS! I don’t like watching Tyler Perry movies. Does that make me a racist because I don’t like watching movies with all black actors and actresses? I simply don’t find them entertaining, and I would imagine the general public does not either. They gross millions because the black communities love it, but theres a difference between making 7-8 digits and 10-12 digits.

I’m willing to give Affleck a chance. No one expected Ledger to do what he did, so who knows what will happen.

lol at the idea Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier is Oscar worthy.

It was not even the best comic book movie released this past year. In fact, I’d probably put it third among Marvel films this past year (Guardians of the Galaxy and X-Men: Days of Future Past were better)…I know I’m in the minority on this, but I think I even enjoyed The Dark World more than The Winter Soldier.

I take it you didn’t see Guardians of the Galaxy, then? :smiley:

PS, rumor mill has it that Dr Strange will be played by Benedict Cumberbatch.[/quote]
No, didn’t see it. Couldn’t justify sitting through the whole thing for a brief cameo…[/quote]

You are interested in seeing a Howard the Duck movie but unwilling to give Guardians of the Galaxy a shot? Guardians of the Galaxy was a really fun and entertaining flick. I thought it was better than 90% of the Marvel films…Heck, it might be my favorite Marvel film.[/quote]
OK, OK. I’ll watch it if I can downsteal it off the Internet. I’m not paying cash money for a cape and tights movie. :slight_smile:

[quote=“Leftywang81”]Same thing with Mulan. RACIAL~ Haha but it IS what it IS! I don’t like watching Tyler Perry movies. Does that make me a racist because I don’t like watching movies with all black actors and actresses? I simply don’t find them entertaining, and I would imagine the general public does not either. They gross millions because the black communities love it, but theres a difference between making 7-8 digits and 10-12 digits.

I’m willing to give Affleck a chance. No one expected Ledger to do what he did, so who knows what will happen.[/quote]

did not notice Mulan’s unpopularity back in the States. By the way, Aladdin had a non-Caucasian looking princess, it still did really well. Lion King featured absolutely no Caucasians… My point is Mulan did better than other Disney animated films at the time. It was perhaps the best performed animated film for Disney during that entire “Pixar-Disney” era (I was wrong, Tarzan did better).

You may be right – but then again, Denzel’s action movies sell very well and he’s black. Now if you gave him superpowers…

According to Wiki: “Mulan outgrossed the two Disney films which had preceded it, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Hercules” (both about white people), though it made much less than Aladdin – which was about a couple of Middle Eastern (or maybe they were Indian or Central Asian… the jury is still out) kids.

My personal interpretation is: if “look our main character is black” is the only selling point of your film, it’s going to flop. But if it’s a good movie and the main character(s) happen(s) not to be white, then it’s a different story.

You may be right – but then again, Denzel’s action movies sell very well and he’s black. Now if you gave him superpowers…

According to Wiki: “Mulan outgrossed the two Disney films which had preceded it, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Hercules” (both about white people), though it made much less than Aladdin – which was about a couple of Middle Eastern (or maybe they were Indian or Central Asian… the jury is still out) kids.

My personal interpretation is: if “look our main character is black” is the only selling point of your film, it’s going to flop. But if it’s a good movie and the main character(s) happen(s) not to be white, then it’s a different story.[/quote]

Haha please don’t compare Denzel and Disney princesses. They cater to two entirely different demographics.
Did you really just bring up the Hunchback of Notre Dame? I’m pretty sure Disney wishes they never put that one out. Same with HErcules. When I talk about Disney princess movies, I’m talking about Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid…etc. Aint nobody thinking about the hunchback or Hercules. Both of which lacked a princess, btw.

Mulan wasn’t a princess either. That’s not a fair metric because the “Princess” movies stopped showing up in the early 1990s and stopped after the Disney Renaissance (yes, there’s a term for it). You can show me that worse box office results correspond to a black princess, but you can’t prove that there is a cause-effect relationship. I personally didn’t see the movie because 20th century Louisiana isn’t an interesting enough setting for me to get off my butt and go to a movie theater; I would have felt the same way if she were a white princess or an Asian princess in the South.

I take it you didn’t see Guardians of the Galaxy, then? :smiley:

PS, rumor mill has it that Dr Strange will be played by Benedict Cumberbatch.[/quote]
No, didn’t see it. Couldn’t justify sitting through the whole thing for a brief cameo…[/quote]

You are interested in seeing a Howard the Duck movie but unwilling to give Guardians of the Galaxy a shot? Guardians of the Galaxy was a really fun and entertaining flick. I thought it was better than 90% of the Marvel films…Heck, it might be my favorite Marvel film.[/quote]
OK, OK. I’ll watch it if I can downsteal it off the Internet. I’m not paying cash money for a cape and tights movie. :slight_smile:[/quote]

lol…Talking duck movies are much classier than those cape and tights movies.

…sooooooo you didn’t watch it? :ponder:

Yeah, but I didn’t watch Frozen either, and they’re all white. You don’t have a convincing argument.

I take it you didn’t see Guardians of the Galaxy, then? :smiley:

PS, rumor mill has it that Dr Strange will be played by Benedict Cumberbatch.[/quote]
No, didn’t see it. Couldn’t justify sitting through the whole thing for a brief cameo…[/quote]

You are interested in seeing a Howard the Duck movie but unwilling to give Guardians of the Galaxy a shot? Guardians of the Galaxy was a really fun and entertaining flick. I thought it was better than 90% of the Marvel films…Heck, it might be my favorite Marvel film.[/quote]
OK, OK. I’ll watch it if I can downsteal it off the Internet. I’m not paying cash money for a cape and tights movie. :slight_smile:[/quote]

lol…Talking duck movies are much classier than those cape and tights movies.[/quote]
Howard the Duck was semi-high brow existentialist fare compared to most comics, but if you put a duck in a cape and tights, I’d definitely draw the line there.

yes, you would indeed be the minority on this…

yes, you would indeed be the minority on this…[/quote]

MCU has kind of written itself into a corner in this regard. I was wondering during the events of Iron Man 3 why, when the president of the US is abducted by terrorists, Captain America and Nick Fury don’t jump into action. Then in The Dark World, when an alien ship crashes into London, where is Iron Man? And in The Winter Soldier, when Nick Fury is supposedly dead and Cap’n Crunch is being hunted, why don’t his friends help out? It’s going to become increasingly hard to justify the characters having their own exploits.