Taiwan kiddies and Stranger Danger

Taiwan Parenting
21

What I don’t understand is why they aren’t that paranoid now, and why it will take another 20 years?[/quote]
Personally, I think we can thank the Western media for the fact people in Western countries are more paranoid, coupled by the Christian-Judeau viewpoint on things…but that’s just me.

Also I think there are far less unsupervised young kids in Taiwan.

Remember it takes a village to raise a child…and for better or worse there is a village mentality in Taiwan…hell everyone in my building knows what apartment I live in, who my roommate is and when my boyfriend is likely to visit, which scooter is mine, what hours I work, etc…and I have only said hi to a few of them (I live in a 12 story building with at least 48 apartments!)

braxtonhicks…I am sorry for what happened to you and since you felt like sharing this information I too will share.

I was also molested as a child – first by my stepfather and then later by my stepmother…neither was a very pleasant experience and the impact has been lifelong (one sister attributes my sexuality to this, I constantly question my motivation in relationships…god it’s a mess) but I try to put into some sort of perspective.
I don’t think MOST men or women are molesters…relatively few. I know my siblings have all reacted differently to what happened and one sister will NEVER ever let her girls be unsupervised around a man…even her husband.

It is indeed a shame that the ones children look to for guidance and protection (adults) turn out to be predators but teach children guilt (as in my traditional Christian upbringing) only help the predator go undetected that much longer…IMHO. (I am not accusing you of this by any means).
Anyway, enough of my ramblings…I just know at some point the situation in the U.S. changed from a time of innocence, or supposed innocence, to a time when all strangers became possible predators. Sitting on grandpa’s lap became a matter to be questioned. Physical contact between adults and unrelated children became an issue although I believe there are studies that show how important contact is between human beings. Every hug, every touch isn’t the hidden agenda of some predator but a very basic human need to be in contact with other people.

22

Paranoia can also destroy relationships between families.

There was a case of a father in Australia who was accused of sexually molesting his daughter when she about 5. The mother saw the father put his hands between the childs legs in the car.

ONLY HE WAS REACHING FOR THE SEAT BELT.

Turns out that the daughter clearly remembers what happened when she’s a teenager, but under the emotional pressure from her mother could never clear the situtation when she was younger. Too late for the father whose life was destroyed.

The mother saw what she wanted to see.

I would suggest that some people here might still need counselling for a childhood even that still torments them today.

My older sister with whom I’m very close would often sometimes hit her children in uncontrolled anger. She went to a psychologist and it took a few years for her to get the behaviour corrected. Comes from being in a violent family.

My father used to be a drill instructer and sniper instructor in the army. So all of 7 kids got regular beatings for all sorts of reasons, sometimes cause the fucker just came home in a bad mood. Sometimes I had to wear long pants and long shirts sleeves in summer to hide the purple yellow bruising from the brass buckles on the canvas webbing… In the 1970’s that sort of thing wasn’t investigated in Australia.

Even my oldest sister had the living daylights smacked out of her by the old man for dating a guy at 17. The cops just said she must have deserved it and wouldnt press charges. Different today.

If I dwell on these things too long I get steamed. So I don’t dwell on them, but I do not forget.

My sister came to my wedding a couple of years ago and sat down with my son and explained our childhood. Now he’s seen me really angry, but I’ve never lost it and whacked him.

My old man was nasty bully, and I’ve only let my son meet him once, for about half an hour, by chance, in Brisbane. My father is nearing death, having had 2 strokes, the last one left him speechless and drooling. The old lady, well she’s doin her best to make out what great parents they were… I was a black sheep of the family, so I copped it worse. My twin sister was their darling angel, so if she said I did something bad that day… bam… I left home a week after I turned 16.

But 6 out of 7 the children were out of the house between 16, & 17. My twin sister made it to 19 until she got married.

I would say that too much repressed faults in earier years have led to the current paranoia today. No wonder nobody wants to be a teacher in Australia anymore.

The only good thing that came out of all those beatings was when a school bully in my year wanted to pick on me, cause I was considered a wimp at school. By the time he got done crawling away from me, with the other kids sniggering at him, I wasn’t picked on again. After all, how was he to know my father could belt me ten times harder. I got packed off to a boys boarding school, where military cadet service was the go.

The good thing about pain, it reminds you your still alive.

Vannyel wrote:
Yes, back to topic…your personal problems follow you no matter where you go…so after a few years in several different countries if you have the same problems then maybe you should see a good shrink.

23

What I don’t understand is why they aren’t that paranoid now, and why it will take another 20 years?[/quote]
Personally, I think we can thank the Western media for the fact people in Western countries are more paranoid, coupled by the Christian-Judeau viewpoint on things…but that’s just me.

Also I think there are far less unsupervised young kids in Taiwan.

Remember it takes a village to raise a child…and for better or worse there is a village mentality in Taiwan…hell everyone in my building knows what apartment I live in, who my roommate is and when my boyfriend is likely to visit, which scooter is mine, what hours I work, etc…and I have only said hi to a few of them (I live in a 12 story building with at least 48 apartments!)[/quote]

Thanks, that was a very helpful post. :bravo:

24

They are fingerprinting in Taiwan. I saw it at my anchingban and all the kids had to do it.

I would say that kindergarten is a time of innocence, but at my anchingban, I have to be very careful. The kids will just make stuff up and then my manager is explaining and clarifying. The problems often come from kids who are just barely paying attention and are not even involved with what was going on.

CYA,
Okami

25

They just fingerprinted all of the kids at my school a few days ago. This is a kindergarten so they definitely do it with the younger kids as well. It’s really not a bad idea just in case something happens.

26

I don’t like that idea. That kind of shit can follow a person around all his life. If the fingerprints are only kept by the parents, fine, I suppose, but I bet they’re not. If it were my kids, I’d be very keen to find out exactly who was keeping those records and why, as well as what happens to them once the kid reaches the age of consent.

27

The Child-Alert, etc. fingerprinting in days past in the U.S. was capable of being controlled. The photo id card and the fingerprint card went immediately to the parent - no copies made.

Today’s technology however, uses PC’s, databases, and electronic scanners to take their personal data and do a ‘clean’ fingerprinting. There’s no telling if a copy is kept on the PC or not.

Some of the ‘complete kit’ packages that were presented for parents to consider even included blood type identification. All they needed was a small blood sample to type.

Amazing what people will buy into when they are scared, confused, and into herd mentality.

OOC

28

The funny thing is that with most US kids these days, the real danger is not being molested, but being killed in a car wreck, or being accidentally shot, or having their brains pumped full of Prozac or whatever the drug-flavor of the month is because that’s what the good doctor said to do, or the brainwashing that soda and fast food companies do.

29

In comparison to the past, children today are relatively safe. During the years 1983-93, 57 children were killed by strangers in the UK - an average of five a year… when one considers that there are 12 million children in the UK, the risk of murder by a stranger is statistically negligible.
- F Furedi, Culture Of Fear, 1997

[i]The majority of all children countable under the Harm Standard (78%) were maltreated by their birth parents, and this held true both for children who were abused (62% were maltreated by birth parents) and for those who were neglected (91% experienced neglect by birth parents).[/i]
- US Department of Health Survey, September 1996

I think some people need to watch “Brass Eye”, some quotes from “celebs” who believed whatever they were told (and counldn’t see the similarity between hoecs and hoax), they did it “for the children”:

“Take a look at this. (shows a photograph of a hillside with indistinguishable blue mark) What is it? Just a hillside? Look again. There’s a child there - no more than a blue speck. But the fact is : if you showed this picture to a paedophile, they’d actually try and attack it in an attempt to reach the child. That’s the kind of warped mindset we’re dealing with here.” - Gary Linkeker

“Genetically, paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you or me. Now that’s scientific fact. There’s no real evidence for it but it is scientific fact.”

“It’s called a HOECS game - a Hidden Online Entrapment Control System… HOECS games can cause serious damage. One child was trapped online for a whole night and, according to a psychiatrist’s report, came away with the jaded, listless sexual appetite of a 60-year-old colonel.”

"Online paedophiles can actually make your keyboard release toxic vapours that make you suggestible. (sniffs keyboard) You know I must say I actually feel more suggestible and that’s just from one sniff.

Now here are the warning signs to show that your child might be in trouble. Are they upset? Do they smell odd? Weird question but HOECS games actually make your child smell like hammers."

“GERALD HOWETH (MP) : Last night a DJ saved my life. How? By writing this music which contains advice on avoiding strangers. And who was the DJ? It was none other than DJ Bob Hoskins Going Mental in a Dustbin.
MUSIC : Stay away from the guy with the funny eyes. Keep away from the funny eyed guy.
ANDY McNAB (ex SAS, author) : Here’s a quick checklist to help you spot a paedophile.
PHIL COLLINS (singer): And they’re all taken from police reports in the last 6 months.
ANDY McNAB (ex SAS, author) : If someone tells you to take your clothes off in case your thumbs get too hot.
PHIL COLLINS (singer): If someone shows you a model of your hometown and all the houses look like penises.
ANDY McNAB (ex SAS, author) : If someone thinks goldfish are the same as flatfish, there’s something very wrong.
PHIL COLLINS (singer): Nonce-sense.
GERALD HOWETH (MP) : (turns off music) Put that in your ears last thing at night because the lesson trickles in. And behavioural psychology tells us that in the morning you will be 17.8% safer.”

(Chris Morris talks to a focus group made up of members of the public)
CHRIS MORRIS : (reading from a letter) Dear sir, I am a paedophile. Please can I have sex with this 3-year-old girl now that she’s 21.
MAN : No way
WOMAN : You should be in a mental asylum.

Here’s a newspaper accusing that program of condoning peadophilia whilst on the opposite page praising an underaged girls breasts:

glgarden.org/foreverman/brasseye.html

30

Ever notice how the major paedophile rings in the U.S. have like 20 people sharing photos or some guy the government as worked a sting on. Granted it’s sick but less then 1/100 of 1% of the population and it still makes the news. I think Michael Moore may be on to something when he talks about the paranoid Armericans.

31

That’s not being protective…that’s them getting their noses in the affairs of the only foreigner in the neighborhood. I think small-town mentality is a more accurate name for such close observation.

When I grew up, we were told to never have our names written on our clothing because people could use it to assure us as knowing us.

Here, I have seen schools print the child’s name on field trip name tags for any stranger to see should the child get separated from their group.

“Sure, you can come with me…uh, Jimmy. I’ll take you right to your teacher.”

Sure Taiwan doesn’t have the same frequency of crimes against children as many industrialized countries. Doesn’t mean that they’ll never happen or that they don’t happen (and just aren’t reported…face being face and all).

32

[quote=“ImaniOU”]

Sure Taiwan doesn’t have the same frequency of crimes against children as many industrialized countries. [/quote]

I am not so sure about this.

33

[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”][quote=“Flicka”][quote=“ImaniOU”]

Sure Taiwan doesn’t have the same frequency of crimes against children as many industrialized countries. [/quote]

I am not so sure about this.[/quote]

Well, at least they’re not selling the used underwear of Xiao didi’s and Xiao meimei’s out of vending machines yet, unlike Japan … yet … :noway:[/quote]
Well just because someone says it’s used kids underwear doesn’t make it so but unlike the U.S. (were pretending is a crime) obviously in Japan people know the difference between real and pretend.

well the results are the same, and I don’t think it’s just because I am a foreigner either…the small town mentality applies to everyone in this neighborhood. And as for small kids walking away with strangers, I don’t see that as a real threat since I am sure the neighbors would question it.
“Hey, Jimmy, how are you today? Is this guy your uncle? I’ve never seen him before. Excuse me sir, are you Jimmy’s uncle? Where is his mother (father)? Where are you guys going? I’ll tell you what why don’t I walk you two back to Jimmy’s apartment since it’s on my way?”
Small town mentality is what Clinton meant when she said it takes a village…a village of busy bodies keeping everyone in line.
Of course add this to the fact there is no desegregation and cross town busing so kids usually attend school close to home and you have very little opportunity for stranger danger.

34

A couple I knew, brought their infant child to Taiwan only to have every Tan, Ding, and Lin (Tom, Dick, and Larry) try to pick him up. Each time this would happen, the father would go balistic at the audacity of a stranger trying to grab his child without his permission. He finally resorted to telling the local Taiwanese to becareful because his son would bite them. They would look at him in shock and ask, “really?” He would give them a serious look and say, “yes.” No one every touched his child again.

35

Yes, it is very good to teach a child to fear the touch of another human being and to question the motives behind every chance encounter with a stranger. Of course one hopes the child wasn’t old enough to also learn the art of lying from his paranoid father. :wink:

36

This idea spread rapidly after Adam Walsh was kidnapped, and later found decapitated by two men who kidnapped him from a mall in Florida saying “Adam, you’re mother told me to come get you.” He was wearing a shirt with his name on a decal on the back.

A side note: his father later went on to host America’s Most Wanted.[/quote]

What if a kid wore a shirt with another person’s name on it? Then he would know anyone who approached him or her are full of it. :astonished:

37

Last year I saw a Charles Manson walking a group of about 20 5-6 year old kids in Taichung.

I guess its not fair to judge on appearance but noway I would have been comfortable dropping off a little one.

38

HI friends,

I am the father of an almost 8-year-old girl. Often, a Wednesday afternoon finds us both at a local park. She is free to run in circles, slide, jump, and play with the kiddies. There are always about an equal number of parents, uncles, grandfathers, etc as children.

My ex-wife has stated her reluctance to let me pick up our daughter from school. She says she is worried that, if I were late, that Feliz would be standing at the gate of the school – a target for kidnappers (??). First of all, I wouldn’t be late picking up my daughter, second of all I asked friends about this and they laughed.

They said “All Taiwanese know foreigners don’t have money! You are all English teachers.” ouch!

However, a judge said “Mixed children are very attractive to perverts!” …that scared me some and although it may be true…he seemed to side with whatever opinion that came from my ex-wife (the judge said this while in court and during a custody battle).

I keep my daughter close to me mostly because of TRAFFIC dangers. Yes, there are crazy people but there are more crazy drivers.

Once my daughter and I spent the weekend in Wutai, a small village in Pintung. There we stayed at a guesthouse. The guesthouse was run by a husband and wife. They have two sons. One is around 7 and the other about 12.

Feliz was outside in the school yard playing with the younger son. I wanted to go inside and she asked if she could keep playing. I told her sure.

Much later, Feliz and I were outside and I saw the little boy clutching a teddy bear and crying. I stopped him to ask “What’s wrong? And where are you going?” It seemed so out of place to me to see a little boy by himself, crying and leaving home. :astonished: He said “My brother won’t let me play the video game! I am going to my grandma’s”.

So I let him go on his way.

Later I chatted with the mother about this. She told me that people there don’t worry about kidnappers etc. Kids are free to play and go where they like.

At the moment it struck me as the way things are supposed to be. I already knew it. That’s how I grew up – playing outside anywhere I liked until it got dark. But I had been in Taiwan so long…I started to cry :blush: but controlled myself as I complained to her about the way things are in places like Kaohsiung – where kids have precious little freedom to play or…

39

I think it’s good if the kids here are not encouraged to fear and distrust strangers. BAck home, we tell the kids not to talk to strangers and to be careful, but I can guarantee they don’t know what this means. You have to supervise them, not give them meaningless advice that at best is just going to scare them. Lots of little kids know they are not supposed to talk to strangers, but most of them don’t know what a stranger is. I met a four-year-old once who was playing outside all by herself, no parents around. She marched right up to me and said “My mommy told me not to talk to strangers.” Useful advice, I’m sure - the mother can be thankful that I’m not a child molester.

On the other hand, how safe is Taipei for kids? One child I taught (9 years old) was not allowed to go outside by himself ever. Even to go across the street to a convenience store, we were taken in a car with two guards. His parents were wealthy and were worried he would be kidnapped.

40

I always found the stanger danger thing odd. Growing up in rural Ontario my siblings and I would run around the town after school until the sun came down. We had to be in at dark. We would run with the other kids and the families of the town knew about it. Even after moving to a bigger city when I was in grade 6 didn’t prevent me from running around and playing in the parks. What I found odd though was that some children weren’t allowed to be out and about without supervision.

My parents told me about stranger danger in the sense that if it doesn’t feel right then don’t do it. I was almost picked up by a stranger offering the group of us candy. My little sister, who was 4 at the time, was going to go but I stopped her. We ran into the house, told our parents who phoned the cops. No one was picked up but that was the closest thing I’ve had to stranger danger. It didn’t feel right to be offered candy from someone I didn’t know.

My parents also told us about good/bad touches all our lives and that if someone was to touch us and it didn’t feel right then we were to tell. I will disclose that I was also molested by a family friend and it did take years for me to disclose that out of fear for my fathers friendship with this guy but when all was said and done and I talked about it they supported me through the whole process of going to the police. Thank goodness there was no trial as the guy did admitt to his part in the crime.

I take the same approach to raising my daughter. We lived in a smaller town for all her life. She was bused to a rural school–the only french emmersion program in the area–which has a rural school feeling. I was one of those parents who have fingerprinted my child. It was once in the hospital when she was born. I’m the only one who has the record of it and it’s kept for an emergency purpose only. When she was born the hospital took great care to prevent any babies being kidnapped. I remember my child had to have a matching bracelet as mine in order for me to take her out of the hospital. I think at the time of her birth there was a lot of media coverage of babies being taken from maternity wards. I being a well educated person understood that the actual probability of someone coming in and taking my child when she was born was so low that it wasn’t even something that would register on my radar.

Now I’m living in Toronto in a very safe community and I find it odd that parents won’t let their kids out and about without supervision. The main concern of most is the stranger danger, my main concern is the busy St. Clair street. My daughter–who is 9 now–has been very educated in her street awareness. She knows where she can go–around the corner to the school/park and to friends houses in the area. She also is able to walk to the store without supervision to buy something she wants. When she went to visit a friend recently to see if she wanted to come to the park the parents said no because there would be no supervision. The park is up the road from the house. How much trouble could a few 9 year olds get into??

Working in a feild that deals with the dark reality of child abuse I know that kids are at great risk of being abused by someone they know then by a complete stranger. It’s unfortunate that the only cases of kids missing or being hurt that are show cased in the media are those of the “stranger danger” type. No one in the media reports on the kids who are hurt by their parents, friends of their parents or even brother and sisters. There are some disturbing cases that I’ve come along that have nothing to do with strangers hurting children.

With this knowledge I tell my daughter the same things that my parents told me. If it doesn’t feel right then don’t do it. If someone is touching you and it doesnt feel right tell me and I will believe you. I can’t protect her all the time nor can I prevent her from enjoying life. I can only support her in her development and hope and pray like heck that she never has to experience what I had to when I was growing up.

I always found it refreshing when I was living in China the openess and community feeling of my town. Parents would often have their children say hi to me and I didn’t mind because it reminded me of my childhood when you could say hi to strangers but to always trust your instincts.

I’m looking forward to coming to Taiwan in the near future with my family so that my daughter can also experience what it feels like to be in a community of people instead of a community of family.

Someone said that they didn’t think the incidents of children being hurt was as high as that in the western countries. I don’t, for one moment, believe this to be true. I think the difference is the culture of secret keeping and saving face is much more pronounced than that of western society. I suspect there are many cases of child abuse but it goes unreported or under reported in the sense that what would be considered child abuse by western starndards is not by Taiwans standards. Just my two cents though :sunglasses: