The narratives about Trump thread

[JB_IN_TW]

@Mick

Smack talk, if you can’t acknowledge the situation that exited when Trump took over, and I will acknowledge the volatility that is the situation now, how are we going to have a conversation.

This did not make any sense. What are you asking me to acknowledge? Name calling? I only went after 45, no one else. I keep it clean.

If you are referring to my words for the current occupier of 1600, sorry, I refuse to call him by name. I am actually censoring myself. But I am showing him more respect than he and his supporters showed for Obama.

Stop talking about previous admins. This is his game, now. He talked the talk. Now, he has to walk the walk. Or go down like the chump he is.

Blaming previous administrations is just making excuses.

Syria was a trap. If Obama did, or did not, he was going to be in trouble. There was nothing he could have done, one way or the other. Syria was a trap set up by Russia. It worked, too. In spades. The hell Putin helped create is Syria helped off-kilter the EU, and the paved the way for 45.

[yyy]

Can’t we all just get along by using Rowland’s Rule?

Every president has one year to blame the previous one. After that, the current president owns the situation.

Don’t worry JB, just a few more months…

[Mick]

@JB_IN_TW

@Mick

Smack talk, if you can’t acknowledge the situation that exited when Trump took over, and I will acknowledge the volatility that is the situation now, how are we going to have a conversation.

This did not make any sense. What are you asking me to acknowledge? Name calling? I only went after 45, no one else. I keep it clean.

My apologies, I in no way meant you had offended or insulted anyone on this forum, sometimes the mod thingy makes it ambiguous, I was contributing as a regular poster.

@JB_IN_TW

If you are referring to my words for the current occupier of 1600, sorry, I refuse to call him by name. I am actually censoring myself. But I am showing him more respect than he and his supporters showed for Obama.

Ok, little weird, but whatever rocks your boat mate.

@JB_IN_TW

Stop talking about previous admins. This is his game, now. He talked the talk. Now, he has to walk the walk. Or go down like the chump he is.

Yeah, I seem to be getting that a lot, Don’t use Tucker Carlson, oh, you are not American you shouldn’t have a say. The issue, which seems elusive to Dems, dates back decades and involves both the Democrat and Republican establishment, but of course, lets not talk about it.

@JB_IN_TW

Blaming previous administrations is just making excuses.

Syria was a trap. If Obama did, or did not, he was going to be in trouble. There was nothing he could have done, one way or the other. Syria was a trap set up by Russia. It worked, too. In spades. The hell Putin helped create is Syria helped off-kilter the EU, and the paved the way for 45.

Syria was another regime change, same as Libya, same as Ukraine, don’t be naive.

[JB_IN_TW]

@Mick

Democrat and Republican establishment

Tucker is not the best choice of source, but whatevs. The actions of 45 will be felt be all. Everyone has a voice on this person.

I hate that word “establishment.” People do not realize, that HE is a member of said establishment. People like to use that word it is a dirty word. Like the world “Liberal” in the modern sense. Why? Trying to make racism and discrimination uncool and afford equal rights for everyone is such a bad thing?

@Mick

Syria was another regime change, same as Libya, same as Ukraine, don’t be naive.

Point? Again, it was Obama’s catch 22. If he sat on his hands and did nothing, he would have caught shit for it. The last time the West sat out a civil war, a genocide occurred.
Putin saw a win-win opportunity and went in, in turn creating the largest humanitarian crisis thus far in this century. That in turn lead to rightist governments winning throughout the EU and, I dare say, paved the way for Brexit.

What was wrong with the regime change in Ukraine? The problems there are hold-overs from Soviet times and Putin does not like it when former states get too cozy with the West, as evident in his very open threats towards the Baltics and very real war with Georgia.

[JB_IN_TW]

I did not know he had a rule. I thought between him and et al it was simply “Obama Bad. 45 Good!”

[Icon]

US starting proxy wars is par de course. US locking horns and waving its military as a penis posturing whose got it bigger: it’s a problem.

[yyy]

The post in which he says it is around here somewhere. I don’t expect him to follow his own rule when the time comes, but we’ll see.

[Mick]

@JB_IN_TW

Tucker is not the best choice of source, but whatevs. The actions of 45 will be felt be all. Everyone has a voice on this person.

I hate that word “establishment.” People do not realize, that HE is a member of said establishment. People like to use that word it is a dirty word. Like the world “Liberal” in the modern sense. Why? Trying to make racism and discrimination uncool and afford equal rights for everyone is such a bad thing?

You are wrong on this, Chewy is a proponent of centralized government, @ChewDawg the people who are in favor of this type of system, are all in, they are 100% believers.

HE was a small cog, his total net worth is a few billion, the US turns over TRILLIONS.

[JB_IN_TW]

Maybe that is his problem with Obama…

[JB_IN_TW]

I guess it depends on what form said central government comes in.

You could argue Tehran and Riyadh have strong centralized governments. As does NK and China.

[Mick]

@JB_IN_TW

I guess it depends on what form said central government comes in.

You could argue Tehran and Riyadh have strong centralized governments. As does NK and China.

We are talking about a centralized global government.

[JB_IN_TW]

Oh, the New World Order.

I see where this is going…

[Mick]

@JB_IN_TW

Oh, the New World Order.

I see where this is going…

Well, paging @ChewDawg one of the guys writing up all these treaties, I think you will find, @ChewDawg will say exactly what i just said.

[JB_IN_TW]

I will have to be shown something, and example. The 45 crowd are the ones who rallied against the so-called NWO/One world government.

I remember this crap from back with Bush I said it in 1991. I egotistically believe I was one of the few who actually got what he was saying, while everyone else ran with the “one world government” thing.

[yyy]

@Mick

HE was a small cog, his total net worth is a few billion

Who, Donnie or Chewy?

[Andrew0409]

Here’s what I’m seeing. I don’t like trump as a person, I think that’s clear. And I disagree with him on many policies. The main issue I have right now is he is putting the US in a bad position even though he’s trying to do the opposite. Not all of his moves are bad and illogical just not political.

He’s doing things like a CEO and not like the president which has limited powers even if its arguably most powerful position in the world. He wants to get things done but he and even a republican majority congress is not getting along well because he’s trying to push he power of the presidency and all of the sudden making a lot of rush decisions and statemanents that he still needs congress to back.

And he’s frustrated and frustrating his foreign allies who are also often caught off guard. It’s not like they also don’t agree, they just weren’t in the conversation and gets put in positions that they don’t want to be in.

Trumps alienating himself more and more from his allies. Outside of his supporters, and to be fair he has and is or is trying to keep most of his campaign promises. So I get why his supporters like him. But he can’t just randomly say things over twitter and make decisions like Iran without congress and talking to his allies. And I suspect he’s just not used to having limited power and the slow process of democracy and politics.

[JB_IN_TW]

You got it. He is playing “armchair quarterback” and his rhetoric has come straight from the bar rooms. But, his supporters love it. They think there is nothing wrong with alienating others and isolating yourself. He has weakened US relations with traditional democratic allies, and has sought to ally himself with what would traditionally be seen as dictators.

His first failure has been China. He did not even try. Next, the wall. Mexico is not paying for it. As I have mentioned, it would be awesome if Mexico shunned 45 and warmed up with China. Cuba, as well. Let them build bases there. Hey. No one to blame but himself.

Ah…they will still blame Obama.

[Andrew0409]

trump is scaring me. I really feel like a huge number of his supporters thinks he is infallible. I never saw something like this with bush at this level. Some of it with Obama. But the level of die hard supporters he has is scary. And he’s captured them with his rhetoric and to be fair he has done some things well like put out strong economic numbers and pushing hard to fulfill campaign promises. But he’s starting to look more and more like his arch enemy rocket man.

Im really worried with the state of what’s going on. Just when I thought one situation was turbulent, more and more things are just coming up. I believe he just got subpoena for assualt charges dealing with the allegations again? Maybe it’s just a politically timed thing. But things are very messy right now to the point that the news is struggling to cover everything.

[ChewDawg]

@Mick I am someone who believes in free trade, open borders, labour mobility, social liberalism, libertarianism and less government/red tape. In the struggle in Trump`s White House between Bannon-supporting purists and Kushner realists, I would get along with both and ask for lots of buttered popcorn.

The chaos/infighting is something to be thoroughly embraced. It is something that as someone who worked in government over a decade (and despises Clintonian opportunism/politicians thinking they are policy wonks) the less functioning government, the better. I don`t trust the career civil servants or the politicians, and I think competing factions is exactly what the framers of the Constitution had in mind.

And yet, in Trump, I find that he is doing just about enough to please me (regulatory reform, cutting taxes, increasing military spending in his budget) although I disagree with him on free trade agreements and immigration. I`m entertained watching him piss off the liberals, who I despise, because, with Hillary as the perfect example, they stand for nothing. Give me the warts and entertainment of Trump over the moral busybodyness of Hillary and her types in the Dims.

In the EU, where I currently live, the situation is different. I prefer the EU, warts and all, and certain right and left governments that are pro-EU in varying shades to the virulent localism that is emerging and very anti-foreigner in character. This is evident in the Brexiters, in Catalonia separatists, in Le Pen types, etc. The EU is so large, so inefficient etc.-- it is relatively benign – just like a dysfunctional government in the US. Governments need to be centralized, but chaos within such centralization should not be considered a bad thing. In fact, any fan of limited government and who has worked in government and seen dysfunction, should be pleased that government is so dysfunctional. They could get into heaps of trouble if they were more organized.

I hate it when people compare Trump to European xenophobes. The US is a melting pot and even with Trump`s minor tweaks to the system – will remain so. The EU has had very limited immigration, so when they oppose what little has come in, they really are a nasty bunch.

[JB_IN_TW]

There are, really, only 4 topics that his supporters only care about. Guns, God, Gays, Immigrants. He can take away everything from his supporters. He could collapse every single social program. He could even overstep his constitutional bounds, hell, he could wipe his backside with the document. His supporters will not waiver. Even the ones on this forum will protect and defend him, bar none. He could commit a genocide and admit to it. And nothing ill would become of him.

No US president has ever had that kind of undying support. There are only 4 or 5 world leaders I can think of who were elected with such rabid support. It did not end well for them, or their countries. His supporters have even promised civil war if he is removed from office, or not re-elected.

This kind of cult of personality is quite dangerous for everyone.