My wife went to Guam on Saturday, staying for less than an hour (a flight turning the plane round & coming back). They were made to disembark, pass through immigration, show passports, give a full set of ten fingerprints, pass through immigration again, then allowed back on the plane to come back to Taiwan.
After further research I found out that it’s now standard procedure when entering the USA to give a full set of ten fingerprints.
My advice is: don’t go!
It’s been standard practice for years, hasn’t it? Post 9/11 airport security tightening?
My wife has just gone back to work after two years off and it’s the first time she’s had it done, therefore I believe it to be less than two years old. I won’t be going there again.
Hey, how else will we be able to keep out the poor, the brown and the heathen?
I have had a few horrid experiences with immigration and customs, but have to bite my tongue, as I have immediate family who are American and cannot afford to get blacklisted. These are the rare occasions that I have penis-envy and wish I were a clean cut, mildly powerful looking, tall white male, in a good suit. Someone who you don’t frack with, as they know their rights, are willing to stand up for them, and are more powerful than you.
I can’t help but think some of these (mean) immigration officials are very dissatisfied with their home lives and really need someone to pick on. About a third of them are very well mannered. Another third are unreadable. It is that final third that make me wonder what they are compensating for.
After not getting much sleep on a flight (as is the norm), my last ugly experience in the states I just about crapped myself when the guy kept repeating that it was up to him whether I could see my brother or not. I know he probably doesn’t have that power, but what if he does? I once had a green card taken away after an interrogation in one of these same airport immigration lines. They can really mess with families.
When I get a mild mannered one, I am always SO grateful. In other countries, I expect good manners (except Israel, where they don’t like my name).
I was in line in Los Angeles some years ago and there was an elderly Chinese woman in line in front of me. The agent kept insisting he could speak Mandarin, and shouting incomprehensible things at this poor woman, then threatening her in English because she “refused” to answer.
Not being mild-mannered at all (and holding a US passport instead of a green card) I called him on it and informed him that if his Mandarin were something anyone could understand, maybe she would answer. Strangely, she was happy to answer the same questions when I asked her. He was not a happy camper. But I’m sure he’s still there insisting that he speaks Mandarin. That three weeks of class once a week, you know. 
But – I see no problem with fingerprints upon entry. In fact, I see no problem with the US enforcing their existing laws. You do realize that living in Taiwan, you cannot move without informing the government, you cannot take a new job without asking the government’s permission, etc. etc.? You used to need permission to leave the country based on whether or not your taxes had been filed, even if they weren’t yet due. (This is/was if you’re on an ordinary work visa, I mean.) The US has no idea whatsoever where the majority of the non-citizens even are.
I can and have moved without informing the government. If my wife and I want to shift our household registration, that’s another matter - but that’s like moving where you can vote in the UK. Foreigners on work visas do it all the time. Government doesn’t know where they live.
Can’t take a new job without the government’s permission? Again, I can and have done this. Those on work visas can’t, it’s true.
Yes, I can leave the country even if I haven’t filed my taxes. Several years ago I couldn’t but that’s all changed.
This has to be one of the most stupid and childish thread titles I have seen on here in quite a long time.
Waa…waa…fucking waaa… :loco:
Did she comply with the requests?
Did she continue on her journey?
Did she complete her journey?
Was this procedure applied to everyone else on the a/c?
I dunno…maybe its just cool now to bitch and moan about being “harrassed by da man”…maybe that ticks some box on the ‘street cred’ form that some people seem to feel obligated to carry around with them?
Maybe its just easier to blame the “Bad Ol USA” for inconveniencing their ass by trying to keep track of all the yahoos coming and going. Sense of entitlement? Above the fray?
I dunno.
And this mental masturbation imaginary profiling of “…I have penis-envy and wish I were a clean cut, mildly powerful looking, tall white male, in a good suit. Someone who you don’t frack with, as they know their rights, are willing to stand up for them, and are more powerful than you.”…Dude/Dudette…check yr issues bag…its over-flowing… :loco:
TC, as Kage and Ironlady point out, many of the Immigration guys are just trained monkeys with issues, and a big Sequoya on their shoulders. My US native born relatives complain a lot about cops in general, and those wannabe migra people really irk them off. Me? I’ve worked in several airports and I know ther eis a right way and a wrong way of doing things, and it is my perception that the stringent laws now give way too much power in bringing out the worst of some of these jerks.
I almost had my finger snapped when one of those gorillas did not think I was pressing it hard enough against the fingerprint reading. Fine, you want me to break it? It’s yours to pay, not mine. I was most tempeted to call my closest relative -same city, that goodness- and have him file a complain -hell if I am going to do it myself, I may have to work there again someday.
ps.
and don’t get me strated on a woman traveling alone…
First time I tried to visit the US the embassy said I didn’t need a visa and wouldn’t let me apply for one. At the border they said I needed one and wouldn’t let me in. 
The embassy told me the border guys were wrong, blah blah. I expect this kind of screw up in 3rd world countries, not the so-called leader of the free world.
Next few times I went on business and would visit up to a dozen cities in a month. The experiences both at the airports and with domestic carriers drove my feelings about it from “That was awful but one day I’ll come back and travel some” to “Next time I’ll drive” to the current, “If work sends me to the US I will change jobs”. It can be a great place to travel around but the airports are run in such a way that I’m sure they put a lot of people off coming back. Maybe that’s the intention, I don’t know. I hope I never have to go back there.
I think kage’s issues are with being a small woman in a world where neither quality generates much respect. Kind of like the issues you have with Forumosa where being a daft old republican puts you at the bottom of the pecking order.
Ahh…here’s where it all went wrong…
If one looks hard enough one will eventually find something to get self-righteous about.
But really, I fail to see the justification for the whining about this bit of traveling trouble.
Anyone ever hear of "Prior Planning’? Doing a bit of research?
Sorry…this isn’t even fluttering the needle on my “give-a-damn” machine.
Need some cheese?
Icon -
Agree about the lack of training and also the lack of quality persons in TSA. Look at them…not really the cream of the genetic pool, eh?
Now, do you really wanna make comparisons to personnel “other” aeropuertos?
I don’t see many hombres con ametralladoras walking around on a regular basis in US airports. Unlike some places I could mention.
You’re not going to find me making any excuses for the poor form shown by the TSA people. If I were to do so, someone would immediately play the “race-card.”
I also think that you should have filed a complaint if you felt it justified. That is how problems with US bureaucracy get resolved.
[quote=“Icon”]
and don’t get me started on a woman traveling alone…[/quote]
Why? What will you do to her? 
It’s a nightmare going through US immigration. Shouting at everybody, impatient, rude and lewd behaviour (staring and perverted comments at my then GF). Claims of ‘we don’t need to let you in’ when my passport was slightly damaged. Other times shouted at when I didn’t tick one box…questioning my intelligence and saying I should have known to tick the box because I had visited the US before (WTF?). Meanwhile standing behind these cretins you have guys armed with machine guns…welcome to the land of the free. What’s with their training, their attitude? I felt bad and I’m a white male on business, I can only imagine what other crap they pull on others. I travel around the world and the US is the worst of all advanced and developing nations (including China) I have so far encountered.
Then internal flights I kept getting pulled over and patted down and my stuff searched…come on.
Ever since 9/11 and the invention of “Homeland Security” you have a bunch of rent-a-cops thinking they are God.
[color=#004000]kage[/color]:
“[color=#400080]I can’t help but think some of these (mean) immigration officials are very dissatisfied with their home lives and really need someone to pick on.[/color]”
In the mid-70’s there was an interesting academic (psychology) study done of the adapted behavior of prison guards, demonstrating tendancies to wane exploitative.
It’s the same basic kind of dynamic happening with the guards in US airports. They rarely identify anyone they’re supposedly looking for. It’s mostly just a shakedown … of those who don’t ‘fit in’ to their profiling.
Tellin’ ya, man! See them Yanks? Worse than the fucking Turks. Hell, they could almost be Albanian!
But there again, try Heathrow. They’re almost as bad as the Americans, but then I already KNEW that Britain’s royally fucked up.
So sorry to hear about all of your experiences, I’ve found that it’s a completely different experience entering as a citizen. They’re usually pretty nice to me, saying ‘welcome back’ and stuff like that; I’ve never had any issues. They must put all the really dickish people on the non-citizen lines. Then again, if I was a little less white and was a non-native English speaker, I suspect they could get a lot more dickish with me as well.
I did have problems entering the UK once - they guy kept me for over an hour asking questions, searched my bag, tried to call the friend I was going to stay with (all this at 2am), and in the end only let me in for two days (ie. until my next flight). No fingerprints though.
It still amazes me every time I make my way through the airports around here - the lack of lines is astonishing. I was just in Hong Kong and there were lines about 10 deep waiting to go through immigration; they immediately brought out 4 ( ) extra agents, making the lines disappear. You would never see that in the US. American airports are truly pretty maddening.
I entered the US last month and wasn’t asked to give even one finger print. Nor was my wife or daughter. I believe they may have gotten my wife’s prints on a prior visit, but I’m fairly certain my daughter and I have never been forced to give prints.
So I believe the correct statement of facts may be that non-citizens are required to give a set of prints the first time they enter the US (and not on subsequent visits because they’re already in the database then), but citizens have no such requirement.
Anyway, no biggie. Beats a strip search.
I believe being forced to give a full set of ten fingerprints is a violation of civil liberties. I believe that giving a full set of fingerprints to the government is something that should be reserved for serious criminals in their own country. If I had to make a list of people I would give my fingerprints to, the American government would be the last organisation in the world.
My wife is a flight attendant. If she researched this beforehand and found she was going to have to do it, she would have no choice but to go through with it or get sacked.
I asked a Taiwanese colleague who recently got back from studying in the USA for three years. She said that every time she entered, she had to give ten prints.
I know the immigration workers are all apes. My point is, why are they taking ten fingerprints off everyone who enters the country? Why are they insisting air crew who don’t even want to get off the plane and enter the country as they are set to immediately fly back, get off and do all the immigration bollocks? In no other country that my wife flies to do they have to disembark the aircraft if they are turning round immediately.
It makes me sick. Would you want an untrustworthy organisation holding all your vital information, especially if it wasn’t your home country? I wouldn’t. I’m not a criminal, I haven’t got anything to hide or done anything wrong but I strongly object to that procedure being performed on anyone. I won’t visit America again as long as this is in practice and I hope everyone else in the world agrees with me.