Trump v. the Deep State


#1

This sort of thing doesn’t happen every day. I think it deserves a thread to track it. Whatever they’re loyal to, it’s not the Orange One…

Also, lots out there about Flynn’s ouster and illegal leaks. Schumer’s warning was indeed timely. Six ways from Sunday.

The Donald is being attacked on two fronts: Soros and the Deep State. Well, he should have expected this. Maybe he did. He seems to relish this sort of fight. He’s stirred up the hornet’s nest. And who’s got his back? No one, really. Except maybe a huge chunk of the voters. And public opinion is fickle.

Garfield stirred up a hornet’s nest and look what happened to him. To say nothing of Lincoln.

But damn, those hornets have got to go.


Scalia dead
#2

Yes definitely. There is talk of Obama’s shadow government, by which all these “riots” and “protests” are organized, and he’s bragged about community organizing, which talent we’re currently seeing and living the effects of, like the wizard of oz behind the curtain pulling all the levers and controls…and these spies in the CIA and Sally Yates in Department of Justice, and leftist judges, they’re everywhere, every department, very willing to comply with their party’s politics under a competent leader, agitator, and unusually proactive when it’s still very early in the administration. I dont think we’ve ever seen such rancor, and certainly we’ve never had a president so active after his presidency.

When former President Barack Obama said he was “heartened” by anti-Trump protests, he was sending a message of approval to his troops. Troops? Yes, Obama has an army of agitators — numbering more than 30,000 — who will fight his Republican successor at every turn of his historic presidency. And Obama will command them from a bunker less than two miles from the White House.

In what’s shaping up to be a highly unusual post-presidency, Obama isn’t just staying behind in Washington. He’s working behind the scenes to set up what will effectively be a shadow government to not only protect his threatened legacy, but to sabotage the incoming administration and its popular “America First” agenda.


#3

He’s well rested after all those years of golf and vacations.


#4

Is there a precedent for a coup driven by the intelligence branch rather than the military?


#5

JFK?


#6

And possibly Tricky Dicky.


#7

So Trump now has the Party, the police state, the press and the politburocracy lined up against him. He still has the people though. As long as he can hold the people he has a fighting chance of avoiding being fired.


#8

Or starting a revolution.

Scary stuff, unless you’ve gotten used to the possibility. Me, I had a feeling it could happen some years ago.

He seems to know who his friends and enemies are. That’s important. And he’s got a nose for opportunity. Not a politician my foot. He’s a political insurgent.


#9

Speaking of deep states, I wonder what the Donald thinks of Turkey. :ponder:


#10

I’d imagine his attitude toward Erdogan will be similar to his attitude toward Putin, i.e. cooperate on common goals where possible. I wonder if Gulen will be on the bargaining table.


#11

This story also turns out to be fake news. Trump and the DNI director insist the allegation is bogus.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-02-16/as-dni-denies-withholding-intel-from-trump-president-mulls-agency-review


#12

I’m not talking about foreign relations. If you’re going to say the US suffers from deep statism, naturally some questions arise. Is the theory here that the US and Turkey have similar situations? And so on…


#13

former CIA defense officer Lt. Col. Tony Schaffer claims Obama shadow government is responsible for CIA leaks.


#14

Here’s an article from NYT about the concerns of a deep state in the US. They’re drawing parallels between the US and countries like Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan, “where shadowy networks within government bureaucracies, often referred to as “deep states,” undermine and coerce elected governments.” (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/world/americas/deep-state-leaks-trump.html)

Although it is fairly normal (as witnessed throughout US history) to see conflict between the executive branch and other governing institutions, experts and on-lookers alike have never seen a conflict to the extent of what we have already seen with the Trump administration.

While I don’t necessarily agree with Trump’s conduct, I do se the need for concern.


#15

Yes, but what does the Donald actually think of the strategies of leaders like Erdogan?


#16

Looked into it, but can’t find any post-election DJT explicitly talking about Erdogan (or Turkey, for that matter) except for the readout of his first phone call to Erdogan as POTUS.

However, there is an interview from July 2016 where he is asked about it:

HABERMAN: How closely did you watch last week as events were unfolding in Turkey with the coup? Is there anything you would have done differently in how it was handled?

TRUMP: The coup never took place — the coup was not successful, and based on the fact, and I give great credit to him for being able to turn that around.

SANGER: Erdogan?

TRUMP: Yes, some people say that it was staged. You know that?

SANGER: We’ve heard.

TRUMP: I don’t think so, but I do give great credit to him for turning it around. You know, the first hour, it seemed like it was over. Then all of a sudden, and the amazing thing is the one that won that was the people. They came out on the streets, and the army types didn’t want to drive over them like they did in Tiananmen Square when they sort of drived them over, and that was the end of that. Right? People said, I’m not going to drive over people. The people came out of their homes, and they were not in favor of what the military was doing. So that was quite impressive from the standpoint of existing government. I will say this: I think Turkey can do a lot against ISIS, and I would hope that if I’m dealing with them, they will do much more about ISIS.

SANGER: Erdogan put nearly 50,000 people in jail or suspend them, suspended thousands of teachers, he imprisoned many in the military and the police, he dismissed a lot of the judiciary. Does this worry you? And would you rather deal with a strongman who’s also been a strong ally, or with somebody that’s got a greater appreciation of civil liberties than Mr. Erdogan has? Would you press him to make sure the rule of law applies?

TRUMP: I think right now when it comes to civil liberties, our country has a lot of problems, and I think it’s very hard for us to get involved in other countries when we don’t know what we are doing and we can’t see straight in our own country. We have tremendous problems when you have policemen being shot in the streets, when you have riots, when you have Ferguson. When you have Baltimore. When you have all of the things that are happening in this country — we have other problems, and I think we have to focus on those problems. When the world looks at how bad the United States is, and then we go and talk about civil liberties, I don’t think we’re a very good messenger.

(Full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/politics/donald-trump-foreign-policy-interview.html?_r=0)


#17

Many are speculating that a parallel can be drawn between the two because they have similar anti-establishment messages:

“It’s not just that Trump and Erdogan share strongman tendencies like hostility toward the press and a belief in themselves as saviors to their respective nations, or that Trump’s designated national security adviser has cozy ties with the Turks. More important, the two leaders share an anti-establishment message that aligns in ways that indicate to Turks, at least the pro-Erdogan among them, that relations will improve with a Trump-led United States.” … “This should not actually be surprising, given the strikingly parallel anti-establishment messages that the two men have employed to achieve electoral success. Like Erdogan’s supporters, the predominantly middle-class and rural voters without college degrees who delivered the White House to Trump are deeply suspicious of the elites.” - (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/why-turkey-is-salivating-for-president-trump-214481)

One more source: https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2017/02/07/erdogan-trump-hold-phone-call-for-first-time

Still, no explicit words from POTUS himself drawing that parallel, despite the inner agencies seeming to work against him. I actually think that he is the one distracted by the media, instead of focusing on trying to regain balance with the inner agencies. But, if there are enough whispers of it, I’m sure he’ll start talking about the “Deep State” theory- after all, it would support his victim mentality.

Flynn, on the other hand, talked about Turkey a lot (while he aligned US-Turkish policy on Gulen, he also actually expressed support for the coup plotters).


#18

Thanks for digging those up.


#19

Thank goodness, Tiller is cleaning out the swamp, just like they promised. No, this isn’t like Erdogan. Democrat presidents always do this (and have the right to do this) and for some reason Republicans usually don’t, because they figure staff are all patriotic no matter political affiliation. Bush having all kinds of trouble precisely because he didn’t clean it out.

Trump is showing himself to understand these finer points (like the Democrats do) a smarter type of Republican on political strategy. This is how to root out the deep state.


#20

“This is the existential dilemma that one has. In either direction — whatever direction one turns — one finds that somehow you are challenged in the fulfillment of your oath. And how does one address a crisis when there is no means to do so?” - Former CIA officer regarding the recent IC leaks.